Marina Blue Through the Eyes of a Professional Photographer
May 22, 2008
by: Lucas Lechuga
About a month ago, I shared a bunch of pictures that I shot while touring Marina Blue. Someone left a comment remarking that my amateur eye didn’t fully encompass Marina Blue in all its glory. I think you will all agree, after viewing this post. Fortunately, the people at Posh Condos were nice enough to share with me some professionally shot photos that they had someone shoot for them. They agreed that I could share these amazing pictures of Marina Blue with my readers, so enjoy!
The lobby seating area at Marina Blue.
The hallway to elevator core 3 and the beautiful orange round-chair at the end.
A shot of elevator core 1 at Marina Blue.
The entrance to the Sky Beach Fitness Center on the 14th floor at Marina Blue.
This amazing view should inspire quite a few to get their cardio workout in each day.
The two hot tubs at Marina Blue.
The sunrise pool at Marina Blue and the Downtown Miami view.
The poolside eating area off the club room. The barbecue grills aren’t installed yet but they will be.
The poolside lounge area at Marina Blue.
The rock garden at Marina Blue. I never knew rocks could look so beautiful.
The putting green. I think there’s about 5 holes in all.
A shot of the circular beds off the sunset pool at Marina Blue.
The sunset pool. You can work on your tan all day until the sun fades into the horizon. The sand volleyball court was being set up the last time I was on the pool deck at Marina Blue.
Most people hate to see an unfinished unit with concrete floors. Above, you’ll find a finished condo at Marina Blue with painted walls, flooring, baseboards and window treatments. The view is killer even from this condo on a relatively low floor. Last week, I got a rental listing on the 5th floor and received an offer that was accepted after just one showing. All Marina Blue condos have a direct water view.
This is the kitchen at Marina Blue from a 12 line unit with tiled floors. The 12 line is a 2 bedroom/2 bath corner unit with direct views of Biscayne Bay and Miami Beach from the living room and master bedroom and views to the north and west from the kitchen and second bedroom.
A sick view to the east at Marina Blue.
A view down Biscayne Boulevard. Yes, the traffic may be congested at times, although you don’t see it in this shot, but isn’t that what urban life is all about? I honestly can’t wait for there to be more traffic in Park West, Brickell and the Arts District. The infrastructure will follow.
I’m originally from Chicago. A few years before I left Chicago, nobody wanted to live south of Congress. The infrastructure wasn’t in place at the time because there wasn’t much interest to live there from young professionals. Now, it’s a totally different situation. Development has pushed more south with each passing year and what was formally known as the “hood” has become a place that young professionals actually enjoy living.
There’s no doubt that the same will happen with Miami. Six months ago, I used to show condos at Loft 2 and 50 Biscayne and hardly anybody lived there. Now, the foot traffic that goes through the lobby of each building each hour is incredible. I showed a condo for sale at Loft 2 this evening and I couldn’t believe how many people actually live there now. It was a sight to see! It’ll definitely take some time for the market to digest the new inventory but, when it does, Miami will be hot again!!!
Marina Blue Condos For Sale
Marina Blue Rentals
VERY VERY NICE. Lucas we all enjoy your Blog a lot .Keep up the amazing work.I will be in touch as soon as the price’s DROP a bit more.Like a lot of others ….I feel that we are going to see Major price drop’s in the near future. Thank you again.
Lucas
I think you’ll agree that the difference between printers row and the south side of chicago growing up so fast when compared to these neighborhoods in miami is that the job market for twentysomethings in chicago was/is significantly better than miami. not to mention, what made those neighborhoods grow up was also the fact that prices reflected the reality of the neighborhood. i don’t think you can say this in any sense for the so-called “park west” neighborhood or the biscayne corridor. yeah, there’s some deals (e.g., loft I and II) but what about the rest of the buildings?
I took some pictures of the Moon Rise over the Atlantic from the Balcony of 1800 Club. I used a Canon 95 for that. Pretty basic camera. Some of the shots are astounding. enjoy.
http://picasaweb.google.com/biscaynebay/1800MoonriseOverTheAtlantic
Marina Blue looks great! I will definately check it out next time I’m in Miami. What’s going on at 900? No units listed on MLS…
AJ: beautiful pics. Also, as an aside — I appreciate your viewpoints on the Miami market in general (although I seldom agree with your points). As you’ve come to realize, this blog is fairly bearish, and more importantly, the most well-reasoned and intelligent metric-based arguments presented are usually bearish. Again, I value dissenting viewpoints, and I’ve learned the most from reading articulate points/counter-points that your comments generate. Keep it up…
Great Blog!
Differing points of view and fortune telling helps make it great!
Great pics Lucas. But is the sand from the skybeach gone already and replaced by tiles ?
Awesome building. I am still interested to buy there but when prices will drop a bit more…
wow, nice pics of marina blue. i love that building. i stil think all in all, location, amenities, price it is the best value on that row. i am looking to rent in the bldg for a bit and decide to buy maybe early next year. ps i just made one of the pics my desktop wallpaper. too cool
Have to agree the amenities look great. I have been in Ten Museum, 1800, Emerald as well as others and must say Marina Blue looks like it has the best amenities of the bunch.
Lucas,
The photos are AMAZING! The only shot missing is a night shot. Marina Blue looks beautiful when most of the unit lights are on since it’s all glass. It really lights up the Miami skyline! I’ll try to get a shot soon when I drive by.
Meet the neighbors at Marina Blue:
http://www.miamiurbanlife.com/group/marinablue
Lucas,
It all looks great until a hurricane knocks it all down like bowling pins. I guess its all how you assess risk. So until then, count me in! Where can I put my deposit?!!
May 23 (Bloomberg) — Sales of previously owned homes in the U.S. fell in April, matching a record low and signaling no let-up in the housing recession. Purchases declined 1 percent to a higher than forecast annual rate of 4.89 million from 4.94 million in March, the National Association of Realtors said today in Washington. The median price dropped 8 percent from April last year, the second- biggest decline. Defaults on subprime mortgages have prompted lenders to restrict credit, while falling property values have given buyers who are still able to get financing reason to delay purchases. Mounting foreclosures will add to the glut of unsold houses on the market, prolonging the real-estate slump and hurting growth.
“There is no indication that things are improving,” said Christopher Low, chief economist at FTN Financial in New York, who forecast sales would drop to a 4.9 million pace. “Inventories will stay out of balance at least until the end of 2009 and prices will keep falling.”
All these condos are nice enough, the question is are there enough buyers under strict ( ie. normal/responsible) lending standards.
Terry,
No, the sand is still there. The volleyball just hadn’t been set up yet. You can see the sand in the lower right-hand corner in the picture below.
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/MiamiCondoInvestments/MarinaBluecondos8.jpg
Roxy, drop me an email when you’re ready to rent.
The way things are looking, I am pretty sure we will see all condo prices in Miami cut in half from now at the least. That is unless hyperinflation kicks in. Govt is printing money so prices don’t have to fall too far in nominal terms, but they are actually accelerating! Note that most housing metrics don’t include condos which have much worse numbers. We are 0.3 months of supply away from an all time high from 1982. It jumped last month to 11.2 (11.5 is all time high). We will easily see 12 months of supply blowing away the all time high. This condo bust easily matches the Miami RE crash of the 1920s. If you buy now you will lose money in nominal and real terms. Just wait until the recession gets started and gas hits $5/gallon (perhaps this summer, but definitely by next summer) Most Miamians who earn less than 40K a year on average will def not be able to afford any of these condos. Buy gold now and you might be able to buy a condo for about 5 ounces in 2-3 years if inflation starts to accelerate. calculatedrisk.blogspot.com
Hi Kim, I am glad you liked the pics. Some are shaky due to the long aperture setting. I have been a sailor for 10 years and seen some of the most incredible sun/moon rises and sets at sea. But this one took my breath away and I just started clicking till my battery ran out.
regarding your other comments, Pls read this I posted in this blog but on a different thread. Might be relevent;
“Ok, I am not talking about the entire Miami Market in General. Sure enough, some Miami river condos with shitty views to the west may infact sell for $125/sf as Ace and Mo wish. But how loud should I scream out that I am not talking about low end, lower middle class targeted condos?
Consider this:
1. Peak was in Summer 2006
2. We are now 2 years in to the downturn.
3. In 1800 club, the best 2 BR lines are 5 and 7 with unobstructed bay/ocean and water views.
4. Total units in line 5 and line 7 = 80
5. Building is almost completely closed
6. No of listings in MLS for line 5 and line 7 = 2
7. Price asking per SF $450 (most likely $50 -$100/sf higher than precon)
My Question:
1.Where the %^$& are the deals?
2. Why is that only 2 owners listed the choicest units?
3. Why are they asking for so much?
4. What is happening with the remaining 78 owners holding lines 5 and 7?
So all this bull about a bloodbath may be true for the crap that is coming up in Brickell, Miami River, Midtown etc.
But if you have a five star building in a superb location with killer views, forget about it. The owners may want to keep it for themselves rather than give it away.
All those who are vigorously challenging my theory, show me just 10 listings in lines 5 and 7 in 1800 club or line 01 in Quantum at $350/SF (nearly the precon prices) in the next one to two years and I will eat my hat and my shoe too!”
What I think we’re seeing at this point is that many owners who are on ARMs (or worse yet, IOs) are just waiting to see how things pan out over the next 2 years, counting on rentals to cover much of their outlays. If things don’t recover, they will just walk away, down their initial deposit + whatever extra the rents didn’t cover.
This is something I’d do as an owner as well. My payments are currently low (due to the ARM or IO loan), so the spread on the rent is not so bad.
Owners with higher fixed mortgage payments should have walked away from their deposits by now.
Besides, most owners haven’t even closed yet on many of these buildings. Quantum is only 30% occupied at this time, and Opera was less than 10% occupied as of 2 weeks ago when I visited the rental office. I’m sure 1800 Club is in a similar situation.
Sorry Eddie,
Q and 18 are teeming with people.
Lucas should post the closing rate for May, it is almost due now (wow, I am almost demanding that Lucas keeps us posted as if it is our right and it is his duty! but seriously, I want to know the latest closing rates of condos).
Q and 18 supposedly are close to 70-80% closed (not verified). Upto 40-50% of both these buildings are occupied by either the owners or renters.
You are spot on about the Opera Tower though.
Great pictures. That having been said, I have a fantastic 1 BR on the 34th floor at preconstruction prices. Any takers? Thought so. It doesn’t make sense to buy now as an investment and it doesn’t make sense to buy now to live there.
hill, From a preconstruction perspective, what made you go for Marina Blue versus the other condos?
Why the Smart Money Rents in Miami
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121155568660617563.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
Nice article but nothing new. A 5th grader with decent math skills can tell you that. Owning a condo in Miami has never been about positive cash flow. If anyone thoght otherwise, they are not investors but just fools.
Here are some great pictures of Canyon Ranch:
http://pod08.prospero.com/n/blogs/blog.aspx?nav=main&webtag=WFOR_DavidSutta&entry=12
AJ
Don’t forget line 2 at quantum. I own a unit in that building and you can get the exact bay view shots form that line that you took from 1800 club.
AJ,
The closing rate post will be up either tomorrow or Sunday.
I guess I am smart money…. 🙂
Thanks Lucas, Looking forward to your beatiful graph and table for closing rates. Finally speculation can be put to rest. Very interested to know where Q, 18, Marina Blue stack up.
DLJ, yes line 2 in Q is also excellent. My only issue is that the bed room has a bigger and wrap around balcony than the living room. But some people might like it that way. Another fantastik thing in line 02 is the window in the bathtub of master BR. I can only imagine singing in the shower while looking at the blue biscayne bay! With 1400 sf and 2.5 baths, Quantums line 2 is good too.
AJ, the reason you can’t find those units is because there are 80 of them in all of miami. At any one time very few specific units are available. The supply of greater fools must be exhausted. Be patient.
Good article on “renting in miami” in the WSF: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121155568660617563.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
AJ,
soon we will be neibours since I am buying in Q a pretty unique loft. It is the only loft of that type in the building- 16ft.ceiling. I always loved lofts. They give a completely different feeling of space.
The terrace is small and sq.ft is small but because of the height it makes it very desirable and also has direct bay views
Congratulations lara, You now have the front row seat to the world! From your loft you can see Dolphins, manatees, footballers, soccer players, playful dogs, picnickers and ofcourse the view. Dont forget to send me an invite for your house warming party!
Infinity on brickell seems to be a first class building. I love the way it looks and the amenities look great. There is no buzz at all about the infinity on this blog. Anyone knows anything about completion, closings, prices etc?
I always like all the talk about building amenities….but, the question is will you actually use them and are they worth paying for…esp. if you only use the building part year but have to pay for full year amenities. It is like paying for a full year gym membership but only use it 1-2 months out of the year. Plus, by owning in a building with a lot of amenities you HAVE to pay for them regardless of whether or not you like them or use them. I would rather have a building with low dues, not extravagant amenities and join a local gym of my choice for less since it has competition for services and prices. People talk about the amenities as if they are included in the purchase price and don’t have future costs, but in fact you have to pay for them every month….like valet parking…OK for a vacation but for a permanent residence what a pain in the rear….have to tip for waiting to get your car, get real.
Tom brings up an interesting point. How much could you be able to slash the HOA in a building like say 500, if you took out the pool (kept it to a lounge area), gym. sauna etc and kept it barebones to housekeeping and doorstaff. Since 500 is in the city, I assume you can get public parking garages nearby and drop valet?
Anybody like to hazard a guess on how low HOA can go or is the hurricane insurance the 800 lb gorilla and all the other items inconsequential?
My point is, outside of Florida, there are a lot of great desirable condos that do away with the frills and keep HOA low. I’m thinking developers might want to think this in the future, especially for buildings in the city. I could builidngs being advertised as “low HOA” working quite well.
No one wll be able to afford these HOAs once the real layoffs start. The value of these condos will be $0. You will only pay HOA since it is sometimes as much as a normal rent – $1100.
Although rents will fall, it still puts the renter in a precarious position, if owner can’t float debt and goes into foreclosure… what are the rights of the renter in this situation? I imagine a sharp increase of landlord foreclosures, as rents decrease.
I researched my landlord, deed, etc. before renting…. Choose not to rent a different reason since there was something unusual with the deeds. Do your DD ahead of time….
JL,
Insurance on the exterior of the building is the 800 pound gorilla. It represents a huge chunk of the monthly maintenance fee. After the last hurricanes in 2005, the government stepped in and set a cap on how much insurance companies could raise insurance costs per annum. As a result, insurance companies have increased the cost of insurance to the allowable maximum per year to help recoup their losses in 2005. That’s why maintenance fees have continued to increase each year. It has nothing to do with the amenities. It’s bull shit if you ask me. Insurance companies make their money by calculating risk and charge a fixed cost based on that assessed risk. When nothing happens, they collect their monthly payments and are happy as ever. When shit does happen, however, they cry and try to recoup their cash outlays by increasing insurance costs. There’s no real risk in their business. Maybe there’s short-term risk, but if they’re going to increase insurance costs to recoup their losses each time that a natural disaster happens then why should we even pay for insurance? Didn’t they assess the risk before the actual damage was done?
Same thing goes for automobile insurance. Insurance sucks! I haven’t been in an automobile accident or even had a ticket in over 5 years. Shouldn’t the insurance companies be sending me a check each month to acknowledge that I’ve been overpaying them each year? If a hurricane doesn’t happen for another 10 years in Miami, shouldn’t insurance companies reduce the cost of insurance? Not likely. The government needs to step in and do something about these insurance companies. They make money when nothing happens and recoup their losses when something does happen. Complete bull shit!
You can cut building amenities down but it likely won’t make much of a dent in the monthly maintenance fees. I think it would do more harm than good. How much do you think it costs per month to keep a steam room operational if, like Renter Tom states, nobody uses it anyways? If you want to reduce the HOA fees then we need to do something about how insurance companies are handled in this country.
Lucas – You need to research what insurance is…. if you think it is a scam, then buy some insurance stock and get in on the scam. Insurance is actually a competitive business which explains why they have to raise rates after a major disaster since they didn’t collect enough upfront because of the competitive pressure to keep rates low. You can always self insure for most things…. Just my two cents on the matter.
I agree with you, Lucas, all the way. Insurance companies are like the mafia.
On another note, My building has this new fangled cable company called HOTWIRE and I noticed they are entrenched in a few other new condo buildings (Quantum, Wind etc.). This company is horrible, evil and completely incompetent.
I think the they are paying off the condo associations to be the only provider of cable, internet and phone service. I have had nothing but problems with this company, I was wondering if anyone is having problems with them too.
If they have a contract for your building then you have to use them for everything. AT&T or Comcast can’t even enter the building. This company cost more than those companies with inferior product.
Just wanted to know if anyone else is having problems with them. Everyone in my building is complaining but the condo board doesn’t want to to anything about it.
Dude – Sometimes developers grant exclusive contracts to these companies in exchange for wiring the building up for free and/or other remunerations. So, at this point, the HOA’s hands are probably tied.
Dude,
Sorry to hear that Hotwire sucks in Quantum. 1800 club has a company called TCE and they are excellent. never a problem with phone, internet and they are always avilable 24×7.
Hi JL,
1. A gym and a lounges are fixed assets and do not have recurring expenditure unless something breaks.
2. Pool, steam and sauna does have a minor recurring expenditure every month but spread over all unit owners, it is a pittance.
3. Buildings like Q and 1800 have free valet. Some others charge for it. It is possible for the valet to pay for itself by charging.
I heard sometimes it is as much as 85% HOA dues goes for insurance and only 15% for other expenses! So there is little wiggle room there to control costs by slashing on the amenities.
1800 keeps its maintenace very low by resorting to very innovative and cost effective methods (there are quite a few and I wont list them here). Quantum seems to have a disadvantage in that regard. 18’s 2BR monthly dues are only $495 and Quantums are $750. One reason I think is that the Q is excessively staffed. They have unnessessary staff everywhere you look around. That is not a smart thing. They have to fix that.
Lucas hit a raw nerve in me when he talked about the insurance. That is my biggest pet peeve.
Tom, do you work for an insurance company? it is unforgivable to defend those bloodsucking leeches. They found every excuse and loophole in the book to deny coverage to the home owners who lost everything in Mississippi and Louisiana in 2005. If they are covered for wind damage, they claimed it was flood damage to deny coverage. If they are covered for flood, they said it is wind damage to deny coverage.
So why the %&*#@ should we pay any premiums to these bastards when they are eventually going to deny coverage for flimsy excuses?
I am the one who always believed in self insurance for the most part. Or atleast the choice to assume the risk oneself. I do not want the state or the building to mandate a coverage for me.
AJ – Nope, don’t work for an insurance company. The problem with insurance companies is NOT the rates, but the CLAIMS. They try to get out of coverage on the claims end to deny coverage. So, I totally agree with the denying coverage, but I disagree on the rate end. If you think the rates are not in line with risk, then buy some insurance company stock and get in on it.
You forget that insurance has to cover the common areas….. so those common area might be more expensive then you realize….
Remember, insurance is a contract, READ your insurance contract to make sure you have the coverage you need.
AJ, in terms of downsizing amenities reducing HOA, the cost savings I was thinking was in terms of the insurance overhang.
ie. Hurricane Insurance is one thing, but you also have liability insurance for the building and in particular, places like pools and gyms. I imagine insuring gyms, pools and saunas (slip and fall) are quite expensive items for a condo far outstripping any maintenance costs.
It’d be interesting to get some hard numbers on this. What would you save in terms of maintenance and insurance if you stripped away a lot of the “normal” amenities in most buildings.
The HOA difference between 1800 and Quantum –if true- is quite alarming and makes me suspect 3 things assuming their amenities are comparable.
1) Their insurance coverages are very different.
2) Assessments are coming very soon to 1800
3) A streamlined HOA might be able to dramatically cut costs without cutting amenities.
I really do think if there was a way to streamline and guarantee HOA savings, you could have a great advertising tool in the mid-lux/lux market. Face it, there are very few truly super rich people and most tend toward houses and not condos. For the rest, regardless of wealth, if you use a condo 4 months out of the year and each month you can save $300 on a condo HOA, that would mean you could treat yourself to a “free” $225 dinner per week for the 4 months you are around. Not a bad tradeoff.
Back in the GoGo days when you saw your condo paper gains going up $5,000 a month, HOA out of pocket costs were irrelevant. Now you see your condo going south, an extra $300 in your pocket/month is very relevant.
Last point, I imagine condo HOAs could pool their coverage together to shop for a best rate? If not already being done, it’s something that should be explored.
Maintenance fees are now factoring into affordability. Along with values and taxes increasing 100% over the last few years, the maintenance fees have also increased by as much as 100%. Management companies have become increasingly LAZY, adding incompetent staff with a third world standard and renewing vendor contracts at above average yearly increases.
Values will be controlled by demand and the economy, the taxes will be controlled by value (look out local government who now has every possible relative on the payroll. “sure, you can be the manager over the people who manage the paper clips) and finally maintenance will be controlled by the management companies UNLESS the association demands performance and accountability.
I know for a fact that Continental has f%cked up at a few properties and the cost of those mistakes was passed onto the owners.
Has anyone seen Caribbean lately? I was outside it today and the pool area looks nothing like the brochure or model. I didn’t see the waterfall from the pool with the shallow wading pool. Plus, they put a gigantic wall of seagrass and trees planted directly in front of pool area blocking the view.
it wasn’t all Continental fault remember board members signs the checks.
GW
Very correct about BOD. Zero experience and matched incompetence.
Yup, Board makes or breaks the amount condo spends. I am on the case of my board in SOBE to cut costs in all those inflated contracts. I dirty my hands to show them we do not need another expensive security system. Most board is just happy to assess and cut checks (tax and spend). NOT a chance in my building and under my watch. I never join the board but the manager and the board sure hate me as I am the obstacle between them and free spending.
JL, you are correct about all 2 points
1800 is insured just at the mandatory levels. So for a higher coverage, the cost goes up.
No new assessments are expected for 1800 other than insurance we talked before. It is not going to happen until the HOA is formed. The developer is just happy to get the bare minimum coverage.
Streamlining cuts costs. 1800 did just that. Other condos can learn from it. Most of those are at the design stage of the building so it might be too late for a lot of condos to catch up on the 1800 tricks to save cash.
Lastly I have a question, How much time from TCO is the developer obligated to turn over the condo to HOA? are there any rules and regulations regarding this?
thanks
Where is Umer Ahmed? Not to be seen. Gone to Houston? Umer, I always hated those MOFO bastards in the united arab emirates. They are lowest of the low lifes i have come accross. I have been to Dubai, sharjah, Abu Dhabhi and its all the same. They treat migrant workers like slaves and pay nothing. In US they would all get 25 years for what they do. So never again whisper about investing in that MOFO country Dubai and the emirates.
Read the article:
Plight of migrant workers blemishes Dubai’s image By HAMZA HENDAWI, Associated Press Writer
Sun May 25, 1:50 PM ET
DUBAI, United Arab Emirates – The 22 men in “trailer 10” work the morning shift at a construction site, then take turns shopping, cooking and cleaning. They pray together. When one returns to India on leave, he carries family presents and cash for the others.
“We all come from the Punjab” in northern India, said Pavinder Singh, a 42-year-old carpenter from the trailer in a camp that houses about 3,000 workers on the desert outskirts of Dubai. “But what makes us like a family is what we have to endure here together.”
Dubai’s astonishing building boom, which has made it one of the world’s fastest growing cities, has been fueled by the labor of about 700,000 immigrants — almost all from poor villages in India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
Their meager wages still go far in their native lands. Two or three years in Dubai could mean building a house for their family, buying a plot of land or sending children to school. Yet many men escape poverty back home only to find themselves trapped in near-servitude here.
Human rights groups have for years decried the harsh conditions of foreign laborers in Dubai and the rest of the United Arab Emirates and oil-rich Persian Gulf. But the problem only drew widespread attention after strikes by thousands of workers this year and last. Some recent protests turned violent; in mid-March, police arrested at least 500 South Asian workers who smashed office windows and set cars ablaze in the small, neighboring emirate of Sharjah.
Dubai officials were embarrassed by the bad press in a city that advertises itself as a world business hub, playground for the rich and home to major horse races and golf and tennis tournaments. But despite promises of reform, there are still problems, The Associated Press found in interviews with government officials and two dozen workers and visits to employer-provided housing:
_Many South Asian workers are essentially indentured servants, borrowing heavily to pay recruitment agents for jobs. They can spend several years paying back debts that can run $3,000 or more, while earning between $150 and $300 a month, lately weakened by a falling dollar and Dubai’s double-digit inflation.
_They work a 60-hour week, with one day off or even just half a day.
_Employers often confiscate their passports, in violation of Dubai law, and withhold pay for two or three months to stop workers from quitting.
_Many have no medical insurance and work outdoors in summer heat of 120 degrees Fahrenheit and stifling humidity.
_Employer-provided housing often means bare, crowded trailers behind barbed wire or on Dubai’s desert fringes. Some are not connected to water or sewage grids.
Overall, human rights groups say, unscrupulous employers and government indifference have combined to create one of the world’s worst cases of systematic exploitation.
Officials insist they have taken steps to ensure regulations are followed at construction sites and living quarters.
“Our role is to make sure that what has been promised is what is actually paid,” said Alex Zalami, a senior adviser to the Emirates’ Labor Ministry. “The companies want to maximize profits. And what we do is teach them that productivity improves if conditions improve for workers.”
He said a draft law soon to go before the Cabinet will allow the government to reject applications for importing workers from companies with a record of violations, force builders to improve conditions or face increased fines, and shut down repeat offenders.
Authorities have since January made companies put workers’ wages in bank accounts that can be monitored. Workers for major building companies have been given ATM cards to collect wages on work sites.
But Dubai officials acknowledge they still face obstacles.
One is persuading construction companies to make changes while maintaining the phenomenal growth of a sector worth about $400 billion in projects this year. Another is a shortage of labor inspectors — there are 400 now, almost twice as many as last year but well short of the target of 2,000. It’s also difficult to build new camps with enough space and hygiene because of soaring land prices, officials say.
Workers can sue in court against employers who miss wages — but it seldom results in payment.
Badri Prasad Sharma, a 39-year-old mason from India’s state of Rajasthan, has worked in Dubai since 1995. He paid the marriage dowries of five sisters with his Dubai wages, but then began to have trouble with his employers over missed salary payments.
Sharma took his employer to a labor court, which ruled in his favor in November. According to court documents, the Emirati-owned company was ordered to pay him 20,612 dirhams ($5,725) and air fare back to India — far above the 16,000 dirhams ($4,444) his lawyer sued for.
But the company appealed, and now Sharma survives on odd jobs and loans while awaiting a ruling.
Yet many workers are unwilling to go home and face the shame of returning empty-handed.
“I had another image of this place before I came,” said Kulwinder Singh, a lanky 23-year-old mason who arrived in Dubai three months ago hoping to save $,7,000 for the dowries of two sisters. He lives in trailer 10.
“The camp here is worse than anything I have seen back home,” he said. “It makes me mad to think about this, but there is no other place for me to go.”
The 40-foot-by-13-foot trailer is filled with bunk beds, cooking pots, cardboard boxes of onions, potatoes and cauliflower, and a makeshift shrine with images of a holy man from the Sikh faith and of an Indian nationalist hanged by British colonial rulers in 1931.
The two blackened air conditioners do little against the summer heat. The floor has a large hole, and the men said the roof leaks rain. Water, brought into the camp by tankers, runs out frequently.
The men rise before dawn, start work at 7 a.m. and stop at 5:30 p.m. They make a 45-minute bus journey home, wait in line to shower, then cook, eat and go to bed at 11 p.m.
“There is no point in being angry because it will not make things any better,” Pavinder Singh, the trailer group’s informal leader, said as he lounged on his bed one recent Friday afternoon.
On Fridays, they work half a day and spend the afternoon washing clothes, watching DVDs of Bollywood movies, calling home and shopping at a nearby supermarket catering to Asian workers. Some Indians and Sri Lankans play cricket on a dirt patch, most barefooted or wearing plastic sandals.
“It’s the only ground we have,” shouted one player when asked about the rough field.
Gentlemen,
I have been a watchful observer of this blog for some time and I really appreciate the dialogue. I am interested in the market down there, possibly relocating, and was thinking downtown. I have not heard anything recently about Ten Museum- how is it fairing with new competition on line? I recently visited it and was a bit put off by the fact that it is still not “finished.”
Thoughts?
With regard to the aforementioned strand I can add only one thing-
“If it don’t make dollars, it don’t make sense.”
hey fellas-
i too have been trolling around, reading but not posting. i’ve been living here for a little while, taking advantage of rent prices…looking to buy at the bottom. anyways, does anyone have any info on the riverfront community (i.e. mint, ivy, cima). they look interesting- not the best location but unique designs and concepts. also, an info on price per sf at icon brickell, those buildings have long been at the top of my short list
cheers
I got a first hand view of the traffic problem that marina blue will face when there is an event at the AA arena. We were at the Alicia Keys concert last nigtht and while walking in, I saw the traffice backed up all around the AA areana. The police had blocked off side streets and I cant see how someone could leave via car from this building. The only way I can see you entering or leaving is via the people mover.
Having said that, marina blue looks awesome from outside. As the pics indicate, the views are awesome.
You get a great view of all the building from the people mover. It was my first time taking public transportation in miami. I knew traffic was going to be bad for the concert, so we took the metro from Coconut Grove and then people mover to get the AA arena.
You think the traffic is bad around the AA Arena? Try a concert night at the PAC and the Arena, too, and try getting off 836 at the single lane Biscayne Blvd exit. It’s a complete joke, that Miami didn’t figure out how to move cars around before permitting these condo towers. I read one comment about “infrastructure filling in” behind the condos. That’s not how it works: in Miami, where property rights are everything, people/ taxpayers are screwed from every direction. I like the idea of living downtown, don’t get me wrong: it makes me really mad that the transit is such a mess and that the big boyz didn’t take care of it when they had a chance to.
The arena did not need more on site parking because of the other nearby surface lots which could hold an additional 18,000 cars. Only problem is the lots they projected to be used are now high rise condominiums.
Some new loft buildings don’t even have parking and are using more spots in these same public garages that were supposed to be used for arena people.
That’s how it’s done in Miami.
You will also notice that nobody ever takes street views or street level shots of these buildings.
They only take pictures from the upper levels.
I wonder why that is? For such a pedestrian friendly area I cannot understand why.
Hi carbon black cab,
I have been wanting to post something about this, but I kept putting off because i did not want to sound more cynical. As it is I take a hit because I am a passionate advocate of the OMNI area and look down sneeringly on Downtown/ParkWest/Brickell areas.
But as you have started the conversation, I am emboldened to write about this mess I have been seeing for a while.
Firstly,
Standing on the Biscayne Boulevard, I could hear the thumping and pumping base fron the Nightclub subwoofers all the way behind MB, 900 and TMP. I can only imagine what it would be in those apts on lower floors how ever much sound proof the windows are. All these mega nightclubs are here to stay for the next 10-15 years until the next building boom. The traffic and noise from them on Sat and Fri are no less to ignore.
Secondly,
I first experienced what it would be for a special event at the Bicentennial Park. 10 days ago there was a Haitian Carnival and oh boy was it a chaos on the streets or what. There were a million Haitians and Friends in their cars and on foot all over the place, I could not go anywhere, police blocked off all the streets from 7th to the 11th. So if you live in any of those 3 buildings, you have to beg and plead the cops to let you in, show proof you live there and if they are in a good mood, they will let you in. If not good luck driving around in circles (actually one circle would take 45 mts). The BP station was a nighmare. Parking was $30 a pop.
Thirdly,
This saturday there was Alicia Keys Concert at the Arena, a Reggae Concert at the Bicentennial Park. A perfect one two punch. Traffic was jammed all the way upto Icon Brickell. Parking is upped to $40.
If your life gets turned upside down once every week or two like this, I would hate it.
I couldnt get a ticket to the Reggae concert. But I wished I had a friend in MB, TMP or 900 so that I could watch Beenie Man from their skydecks. At least they have front row seats to all the happenings at the BiCentennial Park!
Anyway, I went and parked my car at the 1800. Came outside and felt like I am in another world with the peace and tranquility around me and still a hop away from all that chaos. Just to make a point, I took metro mover from 1800 to the Arena (Park West station) and it took me 3 minutes to get there! I walked back from Arena to 1800 along the Bicentennial Park and via the Carnival Center for performing arts and it took me 5.5 minutes! Living in total peace and tranquility and still only 5 minutes away from all the best action in Miami. What else can one ask for in life?
AJ..I hadnt considered the sound issue. You are right. Sound carries far especially when it is windy. We could hear sounds of people cheering and clapping while waiting at the Freedom Tower metro mover. There were also a bunch of people honking their horns at the people streaming from the Alicia Keys concert. Also, I was surprised at how strong the wind coming off the ocean was. I literally had to stand in front of my gf so that her hair would get messed up. 🙁 I cant imagine how strong the wind must be for people in these buildings.
Another consideration are the lights. First, the LED lights on top of police cars are SUPER bright. You can see them from a mile away. Also, at the AA arena, the lights were very bright outside in the front. Unless you have canvas curtains, I am sure this light must be visible to most of the people in the lower floors.
I checked the AA event calendear and PAC event calendear and there is something going on every couple of weeks from now till end of the year. I guess you have to plan your return home accordingly. If there is a concert, park a few miles away and take public transportation home. I personally dont think I can do it. I drive an expensive car and the probabily of it getting broken into are very high. A few years ago, someone tried to steal my xenon headlights at Ballys gym on Coral way. 🙁
I have to agree with you about going from tranquility to chaos. That is how I feel about SOBE. You can be at Mangos on Ocean drive and walk 3 blocks west and you are in a quiet residential area.
Yes, someone else is also mentioning about that damn wind tunnel effect. The hole looks good in the building but it is a disaster. Even the 1800 club has that verandah, which is similar to the holes of 900 and MB etc. The wind gusts are unbearable at times. Makes it hard to use the swimming pool when wind is 20 knots or more (the tunnel wind feels like 40 knots or more). I am not a aero dynamics engineer, but does this hole help or hurt the building in a hurricane? If this hole has no purpose other than a fancy design, no new buildings should ever be built with such holes in future.
Case Shiller is out! Miami is this month’s winner. Miami is down -4.6% in one month. Miami home prices have declined -25.63% since the peak.
On a 300K condo that is -$13,800 in ONE MONTH! Say goodbye to your down payment!!!
For AJ
I am in Houston!! unfortunately! I would muc rather be on the beach in miami…..
with regards to your post on Dubai keep in mind the UAE became an independent country in 1971 we are fortunate to live in a country that has had over 200 years to develop its social system even though it went through its own periods od slavery and civil war!! So give Dubai a break!!
Sure they have built the country on the sweat of labour from India and Pakistan but a lot of these people have built futures for their whole families because of the tax free savings thay had in the middle east! A lot of these people wouldnt have had any work otherwise.
I had only mentioned Dubai as a place for Investment not a political study!! From personal experience i have seen one of my properties increse 200% in 3 years and the other one increase about 8 times!! Not everyone has done thiss well ofcourse but real estate is all about timing and location! Any one interested in investment shouldnt count out Dubai!!!
Regardless i am a fan of this blog because i am also interested in MIAMI, where i would like to own property on water, eventually when the TIMING is right and the LOCATION is right. Living in Houston is only bearable for me as long as can getaway to your beautifull city!!
Dude you are correct , Hotwire sucks in Quantum. Cable signal is poor quality..I had to transfer my HD Dish… internet goes away many time during the week.
AJ – I agreed. I live in Quantum. Q is excessively staffed. They have unnessessary staff everywhere you look around. And also they don’t do anything. Why they have security guards in every elevator sitting on a chair playing Nintendo DS… when my neighbor was moving in the guy sitting on the chair didn’t even try to help him when he was getting into the elevator with 10 bags of shopping… she was so mad..she was falling and the guy didn’t flinch… great work.
Pool area is dirty everyday, heated pool does not work. From my balcony I can see 1800 club pool area and it always looks nice … well maintained. The other day the wind put all the pools chairs inside the pool— 🙂 and nobody did anything until 2 days later when they cleaned up the pool area.
Over staff?? yes but what do they do?? It is all about the money. HOA board is making money on the side so they have to inflate costs to owners.
Lucas I agreed 100% about the insurance companies. Property, car , and the worst of all medical insurance.
# 1 country in the world … about what… not health care for sure.
carbon
you should not, under any circumstances, ever be at mangos.
no doubt the biscayne stretch that constitutes park west will worsen traffic-wise, but i don’t think that’s a reason not to buy there – if you think about it, bad traffic is an inherent reality of any major city. rather, the reason not to buy there is that you shouldn’t pay a premium to live in an area where the probability of you getting shot in the face is markedly higher than surrounding (cheaper) areas.
AJ sounds just like me
I was a witness of that Haitian concert . I was going to the Miami Arena for a concert and it was chaos. I live in Quantum so I did the same… walk 5 minutes to metro mover , ride for free, got to the Arena, enjoy my concert with my friends , passed by all the madness in biscayne blvd… it looked like war zone.. not even police was able to control that mess… went back home the same way to the peace of the biscayne corridor without driving or paying $40 for parking and waiting 2 hours in the mess.
The wind is a bit of a problem lately but… view is more important
I hope the fixed the OMNI up nicely so we can have a mall close to our building. Midtown is not that great yet. A Muvico Palace Premier would be nice too.
Hi Chris, Thanks for concurring with me. Are you a renter or owner at Quantum? If you are a owner, you should do something about all that flab of staff they have. What in the world do they need two guys behind the desk in the lobby for? There are security guys everywhere. No wonder you are getting charged so much maintenance per month.
I looked seriouly at the Quantum but a major deal breaker was the cold pools. I absolutely will not have a cold pool in my building. I asked the management of Q about the pool. They said it is heated but I know it is not. I dont know what is the truth is here.
Yes, I cant wait to see the OMNI open for business in Feb 09. There is also a talk of a movieplex, walmart, lowes coming up on the 2nd avenue near the Q and 1800. Let’s see.
Finally, I had a visitor today, actually “Unrelated” from this blog came to see me and the neighborhood. He couldnt believe how beautiful the place was, the 1800 and also how much it changed since the last he saw the area!
any thoughts if trying to negotiate a short sale with the bank is it better for the client of the bank to be in foreclosure proceedings or just behind on the mortgage and not actually in foreclosure? when does the buyer have the strongest negotiation’s with the bank? and when is the bank willing to compromise the most? thanks for your input….
AJ & Chris,
As an owner at the Quantum I completely agree with you guys regarding the overstaffing and the crappy cable/internet service from “Hotwire” (having said that, I couldn’t be happier with my unit). Overall, the building is great.
AJ – I’d like to know where you read about the potential movieplex, Lowes & Wal-Mart coming up on 2nd Ave.
Regarding a previous post about Quantum being “30% occupied”, I can tell you that is completely false. I’ve lived there since January and have seen a consistent increase in occupancy (clearly over 30%).
daniel
my own experience is that best time for buyers is at foreclosure sale. lenders are instructing their reps on what an acceptable release price is. show up and find the lender’s rep and find out whether you’re wasting your time with your price.
only catch is you need cash on hand to buy. if you don’t have the cash, then there’s a multitude of hard equity lenders that you can ride for 30/45 days while you arrange traditional financing.
outside of foreclosure, short sales are a waste of your time. on the back end, once REO, you might get in a bidding war with those who may also be tracking the property. finally, if foreclosed, the property might be packaged to an investor in bulk. doesn’t really happen with properties abbove valued at over 200k, but you never know.
jcrimes….just about everyone who lives in Miami says the same thing about Mangos. i.e dont go there. lol. But I have a lot of people who come in from out of town for business and they all want to goto mangos to watch the scantily clad women dance on the bar.
About the strong wind, maybe these condo towers can be saved after all. If they put a bunch of windmills on these buildings, they could generate lots of electricity and create a source of income for the owners. 🙂
CBcab, great idea. We definitely should put wind mills on the pool decks!
DNJR,
All the following are rumors and heresay. Some are very valid news and others need confirmation. I really wish they are all real.
1. A marina in front of Paramount Bay
2. Opera Tower turning into a hotel (At least half of it)
3. Lowes, walmart, movieplex at 2nd avenue.
4. An artificial beach at Pace Park.
5. Boulevard shops at biscayne and 15th.
6. Terra Group creating a mini Times Square at in front of the Miami Herald.
and the list goes on. some true and some fiction. need confirmation.
Many of Quantum’s occupants aren’t paying their mortgage or HOA.
Artificial Beach? Who in their right minds will want to swin in Biscayne Bay ……..
Hi Mo, I read the whole article. Nowhere is the word Quantum whispered in that piece, leave alone anything about delinquencies by Quantum owners. Where did you get this info?
Hi JGM,
Biscaynebay is one of the cleanest and clearest water bodies I have seen in any city in the world barring lake Geneva. I see the water ski and jet ski people fall in the BiscayneBay, swim, sloshed etc. Tide brings the ocean in and out every 6 hours. The biscayne marine preserve is one of the toughest on land in controlling pollution and stuff. My building on SOBE is trying to rebuild the destroyed docks in 05 Katrina and it has been 3 years, we are still running from pillar to post getting clearences. On what basis are you saying that biscaynebay is not fit for a swim?
AJ,
You should finally know, that Mo most often posts nonsense!
If you like green murky water, nothing against that, enjoy biscayne bay …. usually about every two or three years, the sewage pipe that is underground from Miami to Key Biscayne bursts, and pollutes the whole bay… .
AJ,
The Terra Group project by the Miami Herald is true. It’s called City Square. I saw the plans and it looks amazing!
I really like this blog a lot and try to follow it about every day. It is helpful and people generally make some great comments about the reality of the real estate market in the Miami area instead of the hype and shrill from Realtors® pushing real estate and the debt burden that can go with it if you overextend yourself.
With that said, it would be nice to have more active topics that examine different properties that can be a repository of knowledge. I think that would also drive some business toward the blog owner….. 🙂
For example, a fantastic blog in Chicago is:
http://www.cribchatter.com
It also indexes past articles about specific buildings and areas (see right hand column). When you want to know about a particular building you just click on it and wow…you learn a lot, the good and the not so good (all properties have tradeoffs). Sabrina who heads the blog is just incredible and posts 1-3 three properties a day. Take a look at it and see what you think. Just a suggestion and might be helpful when 2012 the market bottoms and the posts (mine included) stop saying to wait to buy!
Juan,
Thanks. I googled and found these topics. I could not find the artist rendering of the project though (pls post that link if you have). If comes to fruition, this area would be like Midtown Manhattan with offices, retail, residences and Broadway shows! One more compelling reason (other than the superlative Pace Park) to snag a unit anywhere from Venetia to Paramount Bay while you can. This place will become untouchable if these projects come to life . So run dont walk!
http://www.miamitodaynews.com/news/060914/story1.shtml
http://www.miamitodaynews.com/news/060727/story5.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Square_(Miami)
I’ll keep saying it until it sinks in. None of these properties — even beauts like this’n here — should sell for more than $125 to (at most) $200 sq/ft. That’s the plain unadorned hard-numbers economic reality of the situation. The sooner the NAR and deluded sellers allow that fact to sink in, the better off we will all be.
So pardon me if I don’t gush over this property. It’s rather like seeing a shiny new Lexus priced at $200k. Pretty, but pointless.
More Troops,
Here goes the story;
The husband told the wife at home, “I saved $2 today”
Wife: How?
Husband: Instead of taking the bus home, I ran behind it.
Wife: I saved $20 today.
Husband: How?
Wife: Instead of taking the Taxi home, I ran behind it.
The whole thing is perception. You can tell Shaq or Gloria or Rosie O’Donnel “Why do you live in a 10 Bed room mansion worth 20 million, when you could live in a 2 million dollar house?” They will laugh at you. It is their descretion. They can afford it and they want it.
The same thing goes here. I love a place so much and I want to live here. I am willing to pay certain price for it. If it goes down, so be it. At least I am having fun and enjoying life. If my 500K apt becomes worth 1 million or more, even then who cares as I will never see it. Most likely my relatives will fight over it after I am dead or worse it may be under water by then.
My point is this; Homes are never meant as an investment (at least in the short term anyway). You buy a home because you want to live in it or use it as a vacation or second home. This whole flipping thing that started in 2001 is dead wrong from the beginning.
Has anyone of you ever walked by a beautiful building in any city and wish you could live there but you cant as it is out of reach for you or your parents did not buy one there when they could have? That would be the feeling you might get when you walk past these shiny new buildings like Q,18 or P Bay in a few years from now.
I am not advocating (even for a nano second) to buy here as an investment. Buy here only if you want to live in a most promising place for the rest of your life. It is irelevent if the price goes up or down. If you are really afraid of the down turn, take off 20% from the asking price and make a lowball offer. May be some owner may bite it. But just waiting for bottom to hit may not be a smart idea after all, especially for those who want the best of the best in terms of location, amenities and views. For everyone else they can afford to wait. I am not contesting there.
Just to continue what I have said before, The other day I saw a few firemen parked their Fire truck on the 18th st and taking leisurely stroll in the pace park in their full uniforms. I asked them if there is a fire nearby. They said, no, they are just enjoying the park.
One of the guys (must be in his 20’s) pointed towards 1800 and said “I hope one day I could live in a unit facing the water just like that”. His colleague chipped in saying “in your dreams”
That is exactly what I am saying. The aspirational aspect is very high for these buildings even in times like these. That fireman can possible get in these buildings now. 5 years from now even the Miami Fire Chief may not be able to afford a unit here.
Compare that to Vue or Wind by Neo or so on. I dont think anyone will ever say, either now or 10 years from now “I wish I could live there”.
Yes you may get a place there for $125/sf -$150/sf when the absolute bottom hits, but if that is what you want, go for it. If you are like me who want the best of the best and will settle for nothing else, you strike now to take advantage of this miserable market. Owners are willing to let go of really priceless units for a song. With the slightest hints of market turnaround, the choicest units in the choicest buildings will not be discounted. But then of course, you can always go and live in Wind by Neo.
That brings the question. Which are the aspirational buildings in Miami. That means “I wish I could live there” factor and nothing else. No other point of consideration will matter such as is it worth it or can I afford it etc. Either it could be right now ot 5 years from now.
I made my own list. I wonder what other would think are aspirational buildings.
SOBE: Continuum II, IL Villagio, Apogee.
MIDBEACH: Akoya, Blue and Green Diamond
NORTH BEACH: One Bal Harbour
MIDTOWN: None
OMNI: Q, 1800, Paramount Bay
PARKWEST: Reserving my judgement until it is clear what happens to the traffic and noise around this area. 900 is a good bet as also line 8 of Marina Blue.
DOWNTOWN: One Miami, East facing units of 50 Biscayne, Everglades (and maybe the units of Epic not facing Met 2)
BRICKELL KEY: Quite a few good buildings there.
BRICKELL: Jade, Santa Maria (not sure if 500, Plaza, Skyline, Infinity or Icon willmake the cut at this time)
did I miss any other aspirational buildings?
AJ –
Some people are more emotionally attached to the idea of having their name on the deed than others.
You can count me in the camp that doesn’t really care. Renting a unit in one of these fantastic buildings and owning one provides the exact same lifestlye. In my opinion, a renter doesn’t “miss out” on anything over someone who owns – except the owner’s stress that comes from seeing their “equity” disappear as prices fall.
Many people who have the means to buy have decided to rent simply because it makes no financial sense to overpay for a condo when you can live the same lifestyle for less money by renting.
And if you’re really the “live for today” type, you can take the thousands of dollars you are saving by renting and spend it on toys and weekend adventures, if that’s your thing.
Point is – why overpay to own when you don’t have to? To have the “warm, fuzzy” feeling of having your name on the deed? I guess to some people, that’s really important. To others, it doesn’t matter. That is the difference between the “sideline” buyers and people who are buying right now. It’s not about means, but rather the premium one is willing to pay to own the condo unit.
I don’t care how wealthy someone is. Having an “I don’t care about losing money on something because I can afford it” attitude will erase almost any size fortune. People that gain wealth and maintain it don’t usually have that attitude. That is a more typical attitude of those lottery winners who end up broke squandering millions making poor financial choices because they think “it doesn’t matter – I can afford it”.
People with tens of millions of dollars have gone broke with that attitude.
AJ
you’re kidding yourself if you think that in 5 years from now 1800 will experience remarkable price appreciation from today’s prices. there is simply not one fundamental indicator in today’s market that will support such a statement.
moreover, BFG’s right. if you’re a moron and don’t care about your money, sure, buy…and go drown yourself in your heated pool for good measure. but if you’re practical, and are at least looking to mitigate against any future losses in the short term, you cannot give one good economic reason why someone should buy today instead of waiting a year or more. is it your sincere belief that all the waterfront units in the new buildings will be snatched up in the interim? i don’t see it happening.
Hi BFG,
I dont care about a piece of paper with my name on it. I like stability. I love to live in a place on my terms, my decor, my trappings. I can never enjoy a place where I cannot change anything to my liking. I do not like the fact that at the end of the 1 year lease, my land lord could give me a 30 day notice and I am back packing and searching for a unit. I dont like the fact that as a renter I need to have only a minimum and light furniture and I should be prepared to move anytime even if the lease is not up, but because the land lord got foreclosed etc.
And I keep telling renters who cares to listen, Leave those rat holes you are living in all over Miami and move to these million dollar condos with a zillion dollar views for a pittance. Because, in 3-5 years, when the market starts to turn around, these cheap cut throat rents are History. Your $2000 2 BR water view unit at Q and 18 cannot be had for less than $4000/mo. in not so distant future.
So enjoy while it lasts.
That brings me to ask you BFG
What are you going to do when your land lord ups the rent to $4000 in 2013 because there is enough demand? I will still be living here and you will be looking at places in Kendall to rent for $2000.
Jcrimes,
Dont skim through my post and miss my points. I said you dont have to wait for the bottom. As it is the prices are 20-25% down from the peak. Take off another 20% and make a lowball offer if the unit is extraordinary. If the owner bites, you already have your bottom price (55-60 cents on the dollar). You have no competion presently and all the time in the world to pick a choice unit now.
AJ
no skimming…you assume that’s the bottom. i don’t. and even if someone like me is wrong, what’s the downside? there will be units, including at 1800, back on the (weak climb back up for years to come) upside.
the simple fact is, why not rent a badass place for a few years, let the dust settle on all of these buildings, and then decide which ones are worth buying in? having piece of mind to furnish it as you please? that’s not an economic reason. and i’m not sure how you explain in economic terms that rents in these buildings will increase by 100% by 2013.
AJ said: “Because, in 3-5 years, when the market starts to turn around”
—-
Turnaround could mean coming off $150 sq/ft to $200 sq/ft over 5 years.
85 – BFG: Great post. Exactly what I am doing but am leasing with a tenant only option to terminate if I find a place to buy. No reason to buy now…wait it out and see.
Also, it is a TON cheaper to furnish the place with the savings in renting versus owning…and you can always have it painted back to whatever color it started if that is an issue. If you buy a place you have to decorate anyway…now if you want to change the floors or move a wall that is a different story.
This is nutty. I thought it was a given that a foreclosing bank/lender would pay the HOA.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/housing/2008-05-26-condo-fee_N.htm
“…In Florida, homeowner groups surveyed by the Community Association Leadership Lobby complained that even some banks are failing to pay association fees after foreclosing on homes….In 13 states, banks or mortgage companies generally must pay at least a portion of the delinquent community fees when they foreclose. In other states, the association’s only recourse may be to sue for unpaid fees, thereby racking up legal bills in what often turns out to be a futile pursuit of dollars owed.”
JL – Moreover, the amount of back dues that have to be paid on a foreclosed unit is capped……. unbelievable I know. Responsible owners are going to get hit and those on the margin will get pushed over the edge when the special assessments come to cover for the non-paying units.
AJ,
please do me a favor and elaborate on rents around Pace Park being double of what they are now in 2013… I would love this to be the case, but I don’t see how this is possible.
thanks in advance
AJ, it is a heated pool. The first day I moved I went to the pool and it was great. It wasn’t that sunny but with a heated pool who cares. But from that day on … OMG… cold as ice.. everytime I ask about that, they tell me that they are going to turn the switch on and that it takes 10 minutes to heat up. 3 weeks later still waiting… where is the switch? Australia
DNJR .. I agree it is a great building overall. Great Location…
Great Blog … I was about to buy in opera tower .. they were offering me a studio for 215K in about 190K as a promotion. After reading the blog for a while I read only bad reviews about that building.
Thanks
Hey guys, I’m furnishing my apartment and I was wondering what you thought of Linge Roset (http://www.ligne-roset-usa.com/). It’s a stretch on my Arby’s salary. I certainly don’t make as much as some of the homebuyers and realtors (read ballers) on this blog. They’ve gotta be rich if they’re leasing a 3 series.
Mo you crack me up! LOL
What do you all think about the Aqua Buildings on Allison Island?
Mo,
If you can’t afford Ligne Roset, charge it!
Or try investing in Rooms To Go furniture… very classy and “No Payment – 0% Interest Financing Shop online and Save Now!”
“Save Now” is American for “Spend Now.” With 0% financing, how could you possibly go wrong?
In 3-5 years, when the market turns around and furniture prices go through the roof, you’ll be sitting pretty (in a masculine way of course).
AJ,
Thanks for your advice when I called u the other day about renting in the downtown/brickell area. i’ll be working at jackson starting july and can’t think of a better place to live. Also, I appreciate your insightful posts about different subjects (exploitation of laborers in Dubai). keep up the good work
best,
shwin
MO:
Stop trying to build y0ur own cheap blog !!!
Finally made it to the Opera tower after all these weeks of thinking about it. Here is what I saw
1. The common areas and finishes are surprisingly good. A TV console without a TV though!
2. Loved the pool deck, pool, 2 hot tubs.
3. Very simple and unimpressive gym
4. Nice elevators. 6 passenger and 1 freight. Impressive I must say.
5. Very narrow corridors (hallways)
6. Very small units. Tiny.
7. Bad and ugly looking appliances. Only the microwave looks good.
I seriously think that Opera Tower would make a great hotel (due to the small units). Not good for long term living though.
Chris,
Same experience. The management office gave me the same reply to me 1.5 months ago about the pool. If I were living in that building, I would be doing some serious butt kicking.
DLJ,
I think 2/2 in Q and 1800 with unobstructed water views are seriously worth $3000/mo. But due to the bad economic times we are in, they are renting for $1900-$2200. If it were a unit in Boston, NY, Chicago, similar units should go for $5000-$6000. But this is the “impoverished” Miami. So I am saying it should be worth half of these other cities.
They should climb back up to the normal levels sooner or later. Adding inflation, it might be the number I quoted. You can take it with a pinch of salt.
shwin,
thanks for the kind words. appreciate it. good luck.
Miami2008,
I haven’t seen the AQUA buildings but have looked at a lot of pictures and read several articles–it looks like a dynamite development and I’m hoping to check it out sometime soon. Prices seem to be very affordable for the quality that you’re getting. Also, the developer, Craig Robins, was one of the earliest visionaries of South Beach, so you have to give him some credit.
Heard from a friend that on a certain part of the island the townhomes have horrible issues with clogged sewer lines. This I was told has created a nightmare for many homeowners and they are attempting to sue the developer.
By the way, how many papajohns pizzas equals a down payment on a brickell upside mortgage, forced sale.
AQUA is interesting… I thought it was supposed to make an impact but it seems very much off the radar.
As I look South down the beach from Sunny Isles Beach, I can see the Blue and Green Diamond building then past that further South is a very tall building with plain white lights at the top that illuminate what looks like the outline of 3 triangles as part of the building. What is the name of that building??? Thanks!
I know thsi may be a lil off the subject but talk about a Real Estate Bubble I was in Panama for Memorial day weekend and Wow some geougeous towers goign up but man are they so screwed over there. So I asked the local who bought these towers and every Panamanian I talked to said that they sold ou quick but it wasnt them that lined up to buy it was all forieners. So I said why did they buy and “all the locals said…peopel that foreigners that said they were buying and then plan and resellign them for a profit.
Sounds familiar doesnt it?? Godo luck to those that bought in Panama and paid over 100k for a condo there because that’s not the US and unless it was a second home there wont be any resles cause they are more overbuilt than us and over there there wont be any renters to hold your cost cause Panamanians dont make that much. So you wont have anyone to cover the mortgage. Yes the taxes and insurance will be much lower than here but there wont be anyone renting.
Good luck! I may buy there at 50k for a brand new 2/2 when they are all built and no one lives there as a 2nd home.
JB, Thanks for the info. I like the concept of the private island. I may check it out as well.
Renter Tom, sounds like Akoya to me.
Tom, seems like you are describing Akoya. They show it a lot on CSI Miami too. I love that building. Looks like a home to millionaires. You should buy there.
Yep – that must be it….it appears to be SOUTH of Blue and Green Diamond but during the day it is actually North. Thanks. That is it! Also looked up info – there is a ton for sale and also for lease…. wow. The “3” line looks to be the best floorplan.
Renter Tom
notwithstanding the location, the building itself is quite mediocre. the most impressive units, or really, just the views, are the 2 bedrooms facing south. you get the ocean, beach, and city view.
the units themselves are extremely unimpressive in terms of both layout and finishes. for that type of money, i’d consider the bath club or the diamonds ahead of the akoya.
I really like Akoya myself. I would buy there if it comes down below 300K for a 1 bedroom…Probably never happen though.
jcrimes – I always like your posts… I’m not seriously looking to buy yet, just kinda of learning the area from Ft. Lauderdale to South Beach. So Sunny Isles Beach is a good place in between right now and the rental deals are great. I have an out clause in my lease in case I find something to buy….but that probably will be after this year since I am waiting for the big drops later this year and the areas that have held up fairly well to reach the capitulation point and come down as the lending tide retreats and reveals who’s not wearing a swimsuit. South Beach will decline, big celebs have been trying to bail too. It is just a waiting game now…
Renter Tom
there’s actually an amazing building in bal harbour on 96th and collins (name escapes me). little bit older (i.e., doesn’t have shatter proof glass but intead roll down shutters). the units are amazing and the amenities are great. of course, i’m not a big amenities guy but for those that are, this building is worth it. most importantly, the building’s finances are stable.
I am trying to think back and am almost certain Akoya 1 bedrooms where high 200’s preconstruction.
jcrimes you mean Majestic towers
It sounds like Majestic
whatever the name, the building is legit. the restaurant is great, the pool is great, the tennis court is great and the staff is great. was in a friend of friend’s place in the building recently. just an amazing set up looking out into the ocean.
jcrimes ,
you just need to walk into each unit sideways, then the layout works well, and the units feel spacious.
Crimes maybe your talking about Bellini instead of Majestic. There are 4 foreclosures in that building going on right this minute, and friend of mine lives in the building. If it is Majestic I imagine there are probably issues there too, nothing has not been hit. Even Santa Maria on Brickell has foreclosures.
Solution, stay in cash. Financial Times predicts the market (Miami is second worst in nation next to Las Vegas) will just start to recover second quarter of 2010
just a head sup on the lights on in new condos to make it look like it’s occupied. drove by on my way to SOBE at 10pm and a bunch of lights were on at Marina Blue and 900. Left Sobe at 2:45am and guess what the same lights are on. Dunno about anyone else but this is such a scam I would find it hard pressed that so many so called residents would have their lights on at 230am. I mean it was ridicoulous the amoutn of units with lights on at 230am doesnt make sence so it’s seems to be just another scam. In fact when I saw Ten Museum there was only 1 ligh ton on the units facign east which sounds fine cause prob any other residents would have been asleep.
So sorry all not fact on this but most likely the scam has been exposed that there still isnt that many people living there.
I really like the finishes at Aqua, there are a lot of foreclosures there too I saw a 4 bedroom unit that was huge for 900K, I couldnt believe that it was such a large unit and it didnt have any balconies though
IF YOU WANT TO BUY, BETTER WAIT.
AT LEAST 6 MONTHS. I AM A REALTOR LOOSING A LOT OF DEALS, BUT WITH PEACE OF MIND. I DO NOT WANT TO SELL ANY PROBLEMS. I CARE MORE ABOUT OTHER’S PEOPLE MONEY. 🙂
Tip on Hotwire: get the HD package for $18 a month , you get a receiver box plugged into the ethernet jack and near 20 HD channels (including movie channels) in addition to the regular channels and you can see the programing choices on every channel on the TV. Also if you have a clear view to the antenna park in North Miami (in you are in downtown and have a north view) a 20 dollar antenna from Radio Shack will allow you to see clearly all local HD channels.
Cool
There area lot of nightclubs behind Marina Blue and the other buildings in the area (Ten Museum park, 900 Biscayne); has anyone in these buildings had problems with noise from these clubs?
BEWARE IF YOU HAVE KIDS
THIS WILL HAPPEN TO YOU
AT MARINA BLUE
Please beware that if you have children, the management at MARINA BLUE will discriminate you and your family. And if all possible will have escort out of the property. According to management (NO SIGNS POST ANYWHERE IN THE BUILDING) children are not allowed to set one foot in the gym area. If they are caught going through the gym the child will be escorted out of the building. The have no tolerance for kids. This happen to our family on June 20, 2008. It was raining and my wife told our two sons to wait in inside the gym while she gather her belongings. Within second our youngest child was surrounded by security guards. When my wife walks in the security staff started to harass her. He picked is radio and call the manager. She came down and wanted to escort my wife out of the building. When my told them that she a resident they didn’t care instead they place to security guard at the door of the gym and would follow her all around the pool area. It was a very sad and demeaning experience. We have since decided to place the condo up for sale, take at lost. I would not live in a place where I pay a huge maintenance bill so that my family be treated like criminal
BEWARE IF YOU HAVE KIDS
THIS WILL HAPPEN TO YOU
AT MARINA BLUE