Miami to Become the Vegas of the East Coast?

June 21, 2011 by Lucas Lechuga

Miami casinos

Genting Group, a Malaysian developer which purchased 140 acres of waterfront land in Downtown Miami for $236M on May 27, has contracted the world-renowned architectural firm, Arquitectonica, to design a $3 billion gaming resort called Resorts World Miami.  Genting Group has vast experience in the gaming industry.  In fact, it is the third largest casino company in Asia.  Currently, the Florida legislature has yet to approve a bill allowing full-based casinos to operate in the state but that has not stopped casinos from increasing the money they spend on lobbyists to push a bill through the Senate to change that.

What kind of impact do you think a Miami-based casino will have on the city?  Will property values in Downtown Miami be positively or negatively affected?

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145 Comments on "Miami to Become the Vegas of the East Coast?"


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Anonymous
imo
5 years 2 months ago
Genting is a $45 Billion Dollar company and they can sway any legislature and Rick Scott will be more than willing. It is another 2 years before Herald relocates. Ample time to change the laws before breaking ground. So for your question: will Miami take over the title of “Vegas of the East” from Atlantic City? Don’t Know. But a Vegas style Casino looks certain at the 13.9 acres of Herald. How will a $3 Billion project impact Downtown Prices? Significant upward pressure. Here is the write up in todays herald. It looks like the laws may be changed to… Read more »
Anonymous
Gixxer1000
5 years 2 months ago
Not to mention this project is supposed to create 10,000 permanent jobs. It’s hard to turn down a project like this during these economic times. However I really don’t think this will do much to rival Vegas. We would need dozens of these projects side by side for that. It does however help to build up downtown. I’ve headed out to the Hard Rock a few times, especially when friends come to visit. With something like this downtown it would really help to create a better city feel, instead of having to drive out to Hollywood. And it really helps… Read more »
Anonymous
Poor and unemployed
5 years 2 months ago

Make that 20,000 jobs. 10,000 prostitutes, pimps,escorts, muggers and hustlers.

Anonymous
Gixxer1000
5 years 2 months ago
When you consider this in context with the Brickell Citicentre project that was just approved by the planning board 7-0 it gives you an ideal about the future of downtown Miami. 7 million sqft $3 billion dollar project to the north of the central business district. 5 million dollar sqft $700 million dollar project to the south of the central business district. Related working on Omni redevelopment in the middle. And it seems people like Nitin aren’t giving up on World Center either. And having a casino nearby definitely wont hurt. And the good this is that Swire and Genting… Read more »
Anonymous
gables
5 years 2 months ago
Have to agree with gixxer. while i don’t really see a great downside to the casino, the implication this makes miami the vegas of the east coast is hyperbole. it is one casino. in order to be a gambling destination, like vegas or AC or macau, you need alot of casinos. and we dont have the cheap land for expansion like vegas. but it does create a complement to beach tourism. casinos have appeared in a number of locations throughout the country touting great economic opportunities. i have not seen them achieve these high expectations, but neither have i seen… Read more »
Anonymous
Robert
5 years 2 months ago

so do you want your million dollar apartment overlooking the roof of a mega casino… how do you expect the traffic to be with deliveries and garbage removal you are a block away from Adrian Arscht and feel the traffic of every event at the AAA.. this is going to be a nightmare… and lets not forget the Indians would have a field day fighting this in court.

Anonymous
gables
5 years 2 months ago

robert, not sure which existing buildings would be forced to overlook a new casino. certainly not the four in front of museum park. traffic issues are part of the expectation of living in a city. you cannot live in an urban environment and expect to avoid urban issues! it’s the tradeoff for being able to walk to your food and entertainment.

Anonymous
imo
5 years 2 months ago

There is a 5 year treaty with Indians for not allowing any other casinos. That will be renegotiated soon. In any case the penalty for breach is The Indians don’t have to pay the state a few million dollars every year as royalties or fees. That is a small price to pay.

Anonymous
Gixxer1000
5 years 2 months ago

I also wanted to point out that this project is slated to be built with or without the casino, hence the purchase of the land. The casino just speeds up the pace of development as they would be able to recoup profits faster. The vast majority of this project will be a residential and entertainment complex.

Anonymous
Robert
5 years 2 months ago

140 acres of waterfront … lets proof before we post guys… that type of acreage doesn’t exist we would need to build up from Biscayne Bay and still wouldn’t get 140….

Anonymous
Joe
5 years 2 months ago

I think the casino part of this is pie-in-the-sky. It doesn’t matter if 50% of Miami residents are in favor of it. Without state approval, it can’t happen, and even if Florida approves gambling, I highly doubt Miami would be first in line.

Anonymous
Max
5 years 2 months ago

Sir, why are you so negative? Everything you post on this site is doom and gloom

Anonymous
Gixxer1000
5 years 2 months ago
Once again Joe throwing out his negative opinion without even remotely trying to understand the situations. These casino companies are lobbying for destination resort style casinos at specific locations and not simply the right to allow gambling in Florida. Furthermore the new legislation that they are trying to pass is focused specifically on South Florida. I’m not saying its going to pass but if it does it will be for specific locations in South Florida. So yes, Miami would be first in line. You don’t lobby for the right to build casinos unless they are going to approve them for… Read more »
Anonymous
Joe
5 years 2 months ago

Gixxer 1000 — I understand the situation perfectly well. Do you think these guys are the first to propose casino gambling in So. Fla.? (The answer is no.) Do you think these guys are the first to go to Tallahassee to lobby for legalized casino gambling at one or more sites in Florida? (The answer is no.) Do you think Miami is first in line for favors from the Florida state government when it’s on the verge of receivership? (The answer is no.)

Anonymous
Gixxer1000
5 years 2 months ago
Obviously you don’t. Genting is part of a group of casino operators that have been pushing for this. And like I said they are pushing for a bill that allows for resort casino destinations at certain locations. I’m not saying that they will get the legislation approved, but the legislation they are trying to get approved is for specific locations in South Florida. You make it seem like if Florida approves gambling then there will be a fight to see where in the state it goes, which is wrong. The bill they are working on will either be passed allowing… Read more »
Anonymous
F-35
5 years 2 months ago

Without a doubt an additional source of revenue would boost Miami economy and thus increase property values. If straight-laced Singapore (probably the most money-wise place on Earth) went for it, then Miami should to. Nothing to be afraid of. Make it big, make it spectacular and make it transparent. It should be a go. People who want to lose their money might as well do it here.

Anonymous
F-35
5 years 2 months ago

My only disappointment comes from the choice of Architectonica as the design outfit by both Swire and Genting. I guess rumor of Santiago Calatrava being considered by Genting was never true, and it’s a shame. Looking at Architectonica buildings, I can’t think of a less imaginative approach to architecture. Maybe they can pull it off, but I have my doubts. Miami needs something mind-boggling, and the only thing that boggles the mind about Architectonica is just how pedestrian it is.

Anonymous
Bori
5 years 2 months ago
I got to admit I do not understand the economics of a Casino City and why the other city by the sea with heavy influence by Casinos, Atlantic City, has had its share of significant economic troubles vis a vis Las Vegas. Common sense tells me Las Vegas casinos had been successful due to its high volume traffic generated by Conventions, something Miami would not be able to compete with. Downtown residents must comp-template if they want to live by the businesses surrounding casinos, pawn shops, quick marriage operations, prostitution, drug purveyors, sleazy characters etc etc. Demand for family living… Read more »
Anonymous
F-35
5 years 2 months ago
It all depends, as always. Casinos don’t necessarily go hand in hand with all of the problems you are terrified of. Monaco is not exactly a drug den infested by cheap whores. You build it right, you regulate it properly and you can’t go wrong with a casino. Granted, it may not be a family Mecca (no urban core of any major city in the world is), but it doesn’t have to be a total Sodom and Gomorrah either. That “quick marriage” thing was cute. To further calm you down, I am sure there won’t be state-sanctioned pedophilia, bestiality districts,… Read more »
Anonymous
gables
5 years 2 months ago

Boris, those are bigger problems in casino towns. a miami casino will market to and cater to a higher end clientel. you accomplish this by being a destination site (ie people fly in, leave, and then fly out). vegas has had success with this model. atlantic city has struggled because they went for a more local and regional approach (NYC and Philly)-hence the senior bus tours. this has led to more local problems.

Anonymous
Gixxer1000
5 years 2 months ago

I agree with gables. Boris you seem to be making gambling synonymous with Vegas. As gables pointed out this is a destination resort. Gambling will be a small part of it. This project will have a convention, entertainment, restaurant, retail, residential and commercial facilities.

I go out to the Hard Rock in Hollywood and the last time I checked its not surrounded by “pawn shops, quick marriage operations, prostitution, drug purveyors, sleazy characters”.

You should check out their website:

http://www.rwgenting.com/

From that site you can get to all their international resort world locations. If anything their style screams family vacation and not prostitution.

Anonymous
Poor and unemployed
5 years 2 months ago

Ha!Ha!Ha!

Anonymous
5 years 1 month ago

While I agree with your thoughts on gambling being a good thing for Miami in general, I have to call you on the pawn shop thing by the Hard Rock. There are about 15 pawn shops in walking distance from the hard rock and the bingo parlor.

Anonymous
Makes Me Think
5 years 2 months ago
Please, this is all bullshit. Building a casion in the middle of Miami in the state of florida and everything will be just peachy with none of the problems associated with other places. Hell, there are no casinos in Miami now and the place is mess. I’m sure the gamblers and seedy elements associated with gambling will make it a slice of heaven. Who are you guys trying to fool? Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying this could not be a net positive for the city but quit fooling yourselves. With all these impending buildings being planned looks… Read more »
Anonymous
F-35
5 years 2 months ago
What’s this rhetorical device called that you just had used here? Must be hyperbole, combined with false choice. But I would characterize it as a half-assed attempt at looking original – and failing in the process. Because nobody ever said that casino is a garden of moral virtue. What was said is that casino is not an automatic negative, although just as any other economic activity it has two sides to it. If you have a tourist destination beset by high unemployment, collapsed property values and woeful public finances, then casino is a legitimate way at capturing extra revenue and… Read more »
Anonymous
Gixxer1000
5 years 2 months ago

Then how is it that the Hard Rock is not filled sin and filth that moves in lock step with gambling?

Anonymous
Gixxer1000
5 years 2 months ago

And I wish people would spend 5 minutes looking at the other resort world locations that Genting operates. They are also trying to open up one in NY as well.

Their target audience is not a typical Vegas vacationer.

At least spend 5 minutes trying to understand the situation before you make a knee jerked reaction.

Anonymous
gables
5 years 2 months ago

most of you people fail to acknowledge we already have gambling throughtout south florida at the tracks. slots exist at several locations, and will already have a monopoly on the sleaze that may be attracted to a casino. your trouble will be in those areas, not at a downtown casino where it will cost $20 just to park and enter the establishment! you think adding blackjack and poker to the mix downtown will make downtown even worse?

Anonymous
Drew
5 years 2 months ago

You’re all a bunch of trendy pussies. Real men do their gambling at Magic City Casino/Flagler Dog Track.

It doesn’t get any better than wagering on greyhounds followed by an Air Supply concert.

Anonymous
Joe
5 years 2 months ago
Gixxer 1000 — Judging by your political analysis, you should stick to real estate. Gixxer 1000 said: “I’m not saying that they will get the legislation approved, but the legislation they are trying to get approved is for specific locations in South Florida. You make it seem like if Florida approves gambling then there will be a fight to see where in the state it goes, which is wrong.” — No, it’s exactly right. Why the hell would legislators from all over the state of Florida grant a cash cow like this to Miami but not to other areas in… Read more »
Anonymous
gables
5 years 2 months ago
joe, your arguments do not jive with how gambling has emerged in other states of the nation. casino’s are approved site specific only after a particular gambling company has emerged to lobby for that site-backed up with plans on the construction, operation, economics, etc of the proposed casino site. you will not get a blanket offer to open just anywhere in florida. and a casino operator will not open in a city where they must “build” the tourism-too much cost and investment. orlando is off the list due to disney. voters in retirement type communities will not approve a casino… Read more »
Anonymous
Joe
5 years 2 months ago
gables — My comments above weren’t incorrect in the least. Show me some areas that were doing well financially or developmentally in which a casino was approved in the midst of the boom. It simply doesn’t happen. Casinos are seen as a last-ditch type of effort to spur development. Fort Myers was just an example to make a point, and even as outlandish as it might seem, it was still accurate. If Florida approved gambling specifically in Fort Myers, gaming companies would line up to build there. I don’t doubt the gaming companies have Miami at the top of their… Read more »
Anonymous
Gixxer1000
5 years 2 months ago
Once again you are so off base. First off building casinos has nothing to do with spurring development. Its about raising revenue. The legislation usually requires some sort of licensing fee, applications fees and taxes. Most of this money goes to the STATE no matter where the casino is located. In the report given for the last proposed bill it highlight that Pennsylvania (STATE) took in $1 billion in gaming revenues. In this case the State imposes a 55 cents tax on the casinos. A lot of opposition comes from the Seminole tribe which currently has a deal that pays… Read more »
Anonymous
gables
5 years 2 months ago
joe, obviously you are not familiar with how the casino approval process is done throughout most of the country (outside of vegas and AC). you do not approve ft meyers, then wait for the casinos to roll in. the casino’s lobby for voter approval of a specific site (location, owner, etc already defined). a casino can only be built and operated on such a lot. if another casino wants to open, they must also go through the same approval process-which the original casino will lobby against. the casino developer dictates the location, not the state. and financially, it is often… Read more »
Anonymous
Chico
5 years 2 months ago

Just came back from a short trip to Montreal and was surprised to see that Montreal has a city center Casino – So why not in Miami – Just surprised that gaming will reach the Miami side before Miami Beach.

Anonymous
900 sucks
5 years 2 months ago

Follow @900biscayne for the truth on this horrendous building. About as sleazy as a casino…

Anonymous
imo
5 years 2 months ago

Steve Haas eagerly anticipated City hall Restaurant across from paramount on 20th and Biscayne will finally open next week.

Anonymous
Makes Me Think
5 years 2 months ago
F-35 – “You build it right, you regulate it properly and you can’t go wrong with a casino”. Yeah right, tell that to the folks in Vegas and you might want to mention that to Trump. Lot easier said than done. Maybe I am missing something but are you telling me that Genting, Wynn Resort, MGM Resorts International and Caesars Entertainment are all lobbying the state so that only 1 casino is built in Miami? If One is built and is successful then the others won’t lobby/bribe the state legislature for additional casinos? Listen, I’m not saying the casino idea… Read more »
Anonymous
Poor and unemployed
5 years 2 months ago
Anonymous
gables
5 years 2 months ago

P&U, interestingly enough, you do not find the same unfinished projects in Miami that you do in Vegas. Even with the crash, miami has better long term prospects the vegas. where would you rather live, the middle of the desert or on a tropical coastline?

Anonymous
Drew
5 years 2 months ago

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/06/26/2284873/association-fees-could-stall.html

Good article about high condo assn fees relative to investment return. Fees for the smallest Paramount Bay unit (1,128sf) in 2013 may be as high as $1,138/month. Absurd.

Anonymous
gables
5 years 2 months ago
nice article drew. carrying costs (tax and HOA) and currency valuations will present an interesting dynamic in the coming years with all the foreign owned condos. especially with the euro. right now europeans buy the condo with the advantage of a strong euro. if the euro does drop substantially (as many predict big problems with the euro in current form), current owners are left with a problem of concurrent increases in HOA and taxes. this is a big deal if the euro drops from 1.40 currently to parity at 1.0. not a big deal if it is a rental, but… Read more »
Anonymous
F-35
5 years 2 months ago
Singapore casinos defy odds By Muhammad Cohen SINGAPORE – Marina Bay Sands, the world’s most expensive stand-alone casino resort at US$6.9 billion, held its grand opening a year ago in the teeth of a persistent global economic slump and in direct competition with the world’s second-most expensive casino resort, the US$5.7 billion Resorts World Sentosa. Many analysts doubted either resort could turn a profit and failed suitors for Singapore’s two coveted gaming licenses eagerly awaited an opportunity to pick up these pricey properties at bankruptcy sale prices. A year later, Marina Bay Sands and Resorts World Sentosa are the world’s… Read more »
Anonymous
F-35
5 years 2 months ago
Both measures have maintained double-digit growth so far this year. The Singapore Tourism Board says the casinos have helped to boost the sector’s surge. As Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong hoped when he proposed legalizing casinos in 2005, the two so-called integrated resorts (IRs) have spiced up the city state of five million. “I don’t know how I could have been so wrong,” HSBC regional gaming analyst Sean Monaghan, a pre-opening skeptic, admits. “How could I think the market would be so small?” Monaghan estimates the two casinos’ rate of return on assets is running between 18% and 22%, “even… Read more »
Anonymous
Joe
5 years 1 month ago
Gixxer 1000 said: “It’s so funny how you slant everything in a negative tone. Foreign investors move in to buy a lot of properties and now they are equated to drunken sailors and propping up the economy. If Miami started attracting more fortune 500 companies creating local jobs you would position that as evil corporations propping up the economy.” — Foreign buyers ARE spending like drunken sailors, in large part because of the weak dollar. This is indisputable. The r.e. market in the rest of the U.S. is a mess. If not for Miami being a Mecca of sorts for… Read more »
Anonymous
F-35
5 years 1 month ago

Joe, you are truly an inspiration to every idiot in the world. How you survived beyond the ripe age of three is a mistery to me, but if you could do it, then everyone can. Re-read the article, sit on it for few years (few hours for a smart person, few days for an average one), then come up with another lame try. I just cannot start laughing at your posts, every one of them.

Anonymous
F-35
5 years 1 month ago

Joe, that would be “stop” instead of “start”, of course. I started long ago, please forgive me for the verbal mishap. Keep posting, don’t halt, please.

Anonymous
Drew
5 years 1 month ago

And its “mystery,” not “mistery.” Maybe you’re the idiot.

Anonymous
Gixxer1000
5 years 1 month ago
Arguing grammar in internet posting seems a little ridiculous. It’s not like people are proofreading their comments. But what is pretty idiotic is the way that you read that article about HOA fees and simply listen to hype. $1,138 is not absurd for a 1,124 luxury condo. It’s essentially a 2/2, and as the article points out it’s $1.01 per sf. That’s pretty much in line with the average of a south beach condo. In contrast what that article shows is that HOA fees downtown are about HALF of what they are on the beach. So if downtown HOA fees… Read more »
Anonymous
gables
5 years 1 month ago
you cannot be a cheapskate and live in a condo. it costs money-and on a regular basis. the only way a condo is cheap is if you buy at a low price. you can pinch pennies in your own house, but you cannot do that in a condo building. it is funny how people think they should not have to pay for gyms, pools, etc in their condo because they don’t use them. then don’t live in a luxury building! in many buildings, you pay the equivalent of $100-$200k plus of mortgage monthly in HOA. that is hard for a… Read more »
Anonymous
Gixxer1000
5 years 1 month ago
I agree mostly. My only disagreement is that not every condo is a luxury condo. There is a lot of cost savings associated with living in dense units in the city. Not every condo has tennis courts, spas etc. I guess you could choose not to cut your grass, fix the roof or cut off the cable bill. But for the most part you should simply choose a place that is inline with your budget. In these arguments people seem to take the highest luxury buildings and present them as the average. The average fee Downtown is $0.54. So that… Read more »
Anonymous
Gixxer1000
5 years 1 month ago
Joe, “Foreign buyers ARE spending like drunken sailors, in large part because of the weak dollar. This is indisputable. The r.e. market in the rest of the U.S. is a mess. If not for Miami being a Mecca of sorts for wealthy Spanish-speakers, Miami’s r.e. market would be a total disaster right now. You can’t possibly dispute this, can you?” I think you are so caught up in your ideology that you cant hear how ridiculous you sound.First off I like how you automatically equate foreign buyers to spanish speakers when Canadians are the #1 international buyers. Putting that oversight… Read more »
Anonymous
gables
5 years 1 month ago
joe, you have this ideology that foreigners are bad-i get it, you are anti-immigrant. but to be honest, i have not seen any indication where foreigners have not and will not pay hoa, at least at a delinquincy rate higher than the typcial american buyer. if i am wrong, just provide a concrete example. foreign buyers may have a currency risk, but the hoa risk-to which at one time i also believed was a problem-has not manifested itself. seems to be a voodoo issue. hoa did not develop into the problems anticiated during this past downturn, for example. detroit is… Read more »
Anonymous
Joe
5 years 1 month ago
F-35 – Why the hostility? This is a discussion board and we all post anonymously. You have an opinion and I have mine. It’s not like I attacked you above. If you think I’m wrong, explain how I’m wrong. As I said above, I have no doubt a casino would be wildly profitable in Miami. I’m just not sure it will be a huge net boost to the economy, and I think the politics are tougher than people admit. —— Gixxer 1000 said: “Putting that oversight aside, YES Miami would be in trouble if not for these international buyers. BUT… Read more »
Anonymous
Joe
5 years 1 month ago
gables said: “joe, you have this ideology that foreigners are bad-i get it, you are anti-immigrant. but to be honest, i have not seen any indication where foreigners have not and will not pay hoa, at least at a delinquincy rate higher than the typcial american buyer. if i am wrong, just provide a concrete example. foreign buyers may have a currency risk, but the hoa risk-to which at one time i also believed was a problem-has not manifested itself. seems to be a voodoo issue. hoa did not develop into the problems anticiated during this past downturn, for example.”… Read more »
Anonymous
gables
5 years 1 month ago
joe, you constantly berate the foreigners who are absentee, don’t pay their taxes or hoa, and basically are not good for the miami area. i read that as somebody who does not want foreigners in the area. i should recategorize you as anti-foreigner. show me a major building whose hoa developed problems due to deliqnent hoa from foreign owners, and i will change my tune. just seems you are following an urban myth. you assume a currency change will result in delinquent hoa payments. i think it is far more likely the exchange rate will simply force owners to sell… Read more »
Anonymous
Gixxer1000
5 years 1 month ago
Pretty funny because I was reading an article about Brazilians buying in Miami: http://realtybiznews.com/brazilians-snap-up-miami-condos/9873547/ If you go down to the comments a guy name “Joe Rizoli” leaves this comment: “Good luck with the Brazilians. They are probably one of the most corrupt people in the world for document fraud. You can bet neighborhoods will be transformed into little favalas and the SPLC and the ADL will be having all sorts of “no place for hate” notices for the community’s when they don’t accept the Brazilians politics. When plunder becomes a way of life . . . “When plunder becomes a… Read more »
Anonymous
Jake
5 years 1 month ago

This is good and bad. This is good because it will be golden for the Miami economy and it will make better nightlife. But I know, this is an investment website so, I hate to break it to you but it will drive condo prices down. Look at what happened to Vegas. The condos there are so cheap because they make ALL of their money off of gambling. I think miami prices are going to be driven down because of this. I suggest selling all of your investments!

Anonymous
Gixxer1000
5 years 1 month ago
Joe, “The beach has ALWAYS been there. Foreigners aren’t buying because of the beach; they’re buying because of the weak dollar. Can you at least be honest about that? (And as you should know, most foreigners have been buying downtown, not at the the Beach. The Beach market is still very stagnant, at least above the $200k segment.)” If they aren’t buying because of the beach then how come all the foreign investment is going into Florida near beaches??? Of all the foreign investment, Florida accounts for the largest share at 31% of the transactions. The next closest state is… Read more »
Anonymous
Joe
5 years 1 month ago
gables said: “joe, you constantly berate the foreigners who are absentee, don’t pay their taxes or hoa, and basically are not good for the miami area. i read that as somebody who does not want foreigners in the area.” — Total nonsense. I’ve made maybe three comments on this topic in the past six months. Unless you struggle with reading comprehension, you know damn well that talking about foreign influence in an r.e. market isn’t the same thing as being against the foreigners themselves. My point, all along, has been that when foreigners can afford r.e. that the locals can’t… Read more »
Anonymous
gables
5 years 1 month ago

joe “foreign buyers are somewhat notorious for being less than fanatical about paying condo fees on time (or even semi-regularly).” you also say they are buying like drunken sailors.

of course, you were unable to provide any details on those notorious foreigners skipping fees. and i did not know buying condos with cash would be similar to drunken sailors. its not like they are buying overpriced assets with no document loans which will never be paid off.

if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably doesn’t like foreigners.

Anonymous
Joe
5 years 1 month ago
Gixxer 1000 said: “If they aren’t buying because of the beach then how come all the foreign investment is going into Florida near beaches??? Of all the foreign investment, Florida accounts for the largest share at 31% of the transactions. The next closest state is California at 12%.” — Are you serious? You think Brazilians and Mexicans are buying in Florida because of the beaches, and not because (1.) the dollar is weak and they can get relatively good deals on overbuilt condos and (2.) Florida is chock full of Spanish-speakers? —— Gixxer 1000 said: “Originally we both undervalued Miami… Read more »
Anonymous
Gixxer1000
5 years 1 month ago
Joe, “I know you’re always in a race to reply to everything I say here, but you really should try to read more carefully before doing so. First, I said Vegas MIGHT be a better bet. Second, if not for the weak dollar, Miami would be just as big of a mess as Vegas right now. I didn’t see Brazilians and Canadians and Mexicans lining up to buy Miami condos at the 2005-08 prices. Also, unlike states in the Southwest that are seeing a huge influx of wealthy people fleeing California, the people buying in Miami are often absentee owners… Read more »
Anonymous
Bobby
5 years 1 month ago

I haven’t posted here in years. I stopped commenting shortly before RT left this blog.

My observations:
Joe is the new RT… reasoned, logical arguments. Keep it up Joe.

Gixxer is the new DJ guy (the one with a rental condo)… always talking his book, emotional and logically inconsistent arguments, a shill for RE developers (and possibly a plant), and a Miami permabull.

Gables has gone over to the nonsense/dark side.

Interesting.

Anonymous
Joe
5 years 1 month ago
Gixxer said: “There is no might about, Vegas has absolutely no chance to do better than Miami. And foreigners were lining up to buy condos up until the market busted, their demand helped create that bust.” — Then why didn’t they close on the condos? It’s not like Americans defaulted and foreigners closed. If Miami is such a “global product,” why was there such a lag between the bust and the wave for foreign buyers? I’ll tell you why — the demand is due to the weak dollar, and not because of any specious claims that Miami has turned the… Read more »
Anonymous
Joe
5 years 1 month ago
gables said: “of course, you were unable to provide any details on those notorious foreigners skipping fees. and i did not know buying condos with cash would be similar to drunken sailors. its not like they are buying overpriced assets with no document loans which will never be paid off.” — You people seem to have short memories. No more than a year or two ago, there were stories all over about HOAs foreclosing on condos because of unpaid fees, and a recurring theme was the difficulty of foreclosing on foreign-owned condos because of service issues and other legal issues.… Read more »
Anonymous
gables
5 years 1 month ago
joe, you are getting testy in your miserable old age! the hoa foreclosing on condos due to unpaid fees was from buyers who were underwater and unwilling to sink another dime into a poor investment. i do not recall a “recurring theme” of foreign owned condos being the source of these problems in the media. it was probably just as big of a problem with the american group of homeowners. again, just show me an example where those foreigners led the charge in delinquency in brickell. should be easy since it was such a recurring theme. this was another urban… Read more »
Anonymous
gables
5 years 1 month ago
joe, vegas also has a “weak dollar” for foreign buyers, yet it is not selling like miami. it is not just the weak dollar. foreigners lagged for a while until the financial crisis stabilized, then they used the weak dollar to buy property in a growing urban environment. obviously they must have some criteria for buyer location, because they chose miami over vegas. and i don’t think they are buying for employment opportunities or civic engagement. they want waterfront access in an urban tropical climate. that is what miami always has and always will sell to the outsider. the weak… Read more »
Anonymous
Visionary
5 years 1 month ago

gables,

You are 100 percent right, this was my main reason to buy a condo in Miami.

Anonymous
Gixxer1000
5 years 1 month ago
I don’t even understand what Joe is trying to argue anymore. A year ago you saw no end to the decline in values. Now you’re arguing that foreign buyers are only buying condos because of the weak dollar and ignoring the fact (as gables highlights) that if it was just the weak dollar they could be buying anywhere in the U.S. and yet the majority of the foreign money is pouring into Miami. I hate to tell you but real estate is a cyclical business. It booms and busts. This is going to continue to happen for various reasons. I’m… Read more »
Anonymous
Joe
5 years 1 month ago
gables said: “again, just show me an example where those foreigners led the charge in delinquency in brickell.” — Where did I say foreigners “led the charge” in delinquency? I said some HOAs have had trouble with collecting fees in a timely fashion from foreign-owned condos, and that foreclosing on foreign-owned condos is often harder because of service issues and other legalities. —— gables said: “joe, vegas also has a “weak dollar” for foreign buyers, yet it is not selling like miami.” — Um, this is PRECISELY my point. Most people in Latin America couldn’t find Vegas on a map,… Read more »
Anonymous
Gixxer1000
5 years 1 month ago
“Really? A few days ago, you said Florida was getting 31% of foreign money. Since when is 31% a “majority” of anything? (And not all 31% is going to Miami.)” You are an idiot. Last time I checked there are 50 states. Florida by itself gets 31% of the foreign money coming into the U.S. So the other 49 states have to split up the remaining 69%. Like I said, the next closest gets 12% and its the only other state in double digits. Florida 31% California 12% Texas 9% Arizona 6% Illinois 3% New York 3% Georgia 2% Hawaii… Read more »
Anonymous
Visionary
5 years 1 month ago

Gixxer1000 and gables,

Why don’t you just ignore Joe ?

Anonymous
Gixxer1000
5 years 1 month ago
You’re probably right. When I first came to this site I didn’t live here full time so the opposing dialogue challenged me to learn more about Miami. Now I live here full time and work in acquisitions and pretty much spend all day deciding what buildings my company buys and sells and finding investors to finance these deals. So now most things coming from Joe just seem absurd and have more to deal with ideology and not investment research. I probably should just ignore him, but we’ve been going at this for years now. I just think its funny to… Read more »
Anonymous
gables
5 years 1 month ago
joe, if the foreigners did not lead the charge, then why are you pointing them out specifically as a problem. there are much bigger fish to fry in any hoa issues. but you conveniently ignore those to point a finger at a few foreign incidents. you listen to rush way too much. you use innuendo and half truths to place the foreigners in a bad light, then play innocent. that game gets played on talk radio, but i will call you on it here. its the same game you played trying to blame things like the CRA for the financial… Read more »
Anonymous
Joe
5 years 1 month ago
Gixxer 1000 said: “I don’t even understand what Joe is trying to argue anymore. A year ago you saw no end to the decline in values. Now you’re arguing that foreign buyers …” — I’ve met a lot of dishonest people in my life, but you’re at the top of the list. I know you like to portray yourself as the big expert here, but my macro analysis has been far better than yours, and it’s all right here in black and white for people to see. Twelve to 18 months ago, when this debate got started, I said the… Read more »
Anonymous
Gixxer1000
5 years 1 month ago
“(Remember all those long Gixxer 1000 posts about there being “300,000 professionals in Miami,” and families moving downtown, and “mothers pushing strollers,” and all that? Ha ha ha.)” How am I wrong. The number of strollers I see in Brickell seems grow each month. And the number of professionals seems to grow as well. I can tell you that job opportunities for me and the people I graduated with have been great. I had multiple job offers. Who the hell do you think is renting all these 1/1 at $1750 and 2/2 at $2,200??? There are 2.5M people in the… Read more »
Anonymous
Visionary
5 years 1 month ago

I am a foreigner, and I pay my monthly HOA fees always one week in advance !

Anonymous
Gixxer1000
5 years 1 month ago
So my lease is up in a month and I find out that my unit is now renting for $250 more a month than what I rented at a year ago. Considering it will cost a considerable amount of money if I move out I’m trying to negotiate only a $100 a month increase. I remember about a year ago everyone was talking about all the empty rentals and how they were sitting empty for hundreds of days. Now units are renting in a month for hundreds of dollars more. In my building the average price per square foot has… Read more »
Anonymous
Makes Me Think
5 years 1 month ago
Gixxer, you weren’t in a position to buy 2 years ago so don’t beat up yourself over that. The good thing is that interest rates are still low today. There were many people touting saving a few hundred dollars in rent/month two years ago and didn’t take the opportunity to lock in their rent for forever by buying at distressed levels. Today these folks are facing the same problem you are and could be priced out of the downtown market in a few years. They may be relegated to moving out to a rat infested apartment in Hialeia in just… Read more »
Anonymous
Gixxer1000
5 years 1 month ago
New construction is unlikely to let this happen. Downtown (especially Brickell) has grown into an extremely desirable neighborhood. As the prices continue to rise developers will begin to build more rental buildings to take advantage of this growing demand. One area to be on the lookout for is west of the metrorail in Brickell. This area is less developed but is still only a block away from Mary Brickell Village. Developers can build there and forgo the luxury features and make a profit renting at more moderate prices. Another option is to renovate some of the existing buildings that are… Read more »
Anonymous
Gixxer1000
5 years 1 month ago

Article about foreign buyers at USA Today:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/housing/2011-07-05-forign-buyers-real-estate_n.htm

At the bottom they have a chart that shows internet searches at Trulia from the top foreign countries. It seems pretty clear that Miami is at the top of the list for just about every country.

Anonymous
Drew
5 years 1 month ago

That’s a pretty interesting chart on foreign Trulia searches. Funny that 3 of the top 10 UK searches are central Fla (Orlando, Kissimmee, Daveport)…why would snooty Brits be drawn to a tacky and cultural wasteland like central Fla? I guess they like theme parks.

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