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It would be good to mention the property tax differences. For example, buying an REO doesn’t mean you pay property taxes on the sale price, you pay property taxes on the price if it was not an REO (as calculated by the county property appraisers office.)
Also there are games people (agent/owners) play where they offer a property as a short sale at a low price, but never answer their phone or allow people to view the property. Then they talk to the bank and say the house was on the market at this price for X months (usually 6 or 9 months) and nobody made an offer. This helps justify an even lower price which they buy the house with their own LLC at the even lower price.
ElvisInMiami
You are so right about it. I can show many properties in Miami. My question to Lucas – Why do the realtors take a listing knowing that the owner has no intention of selling! Do they get retainer fees or something? As we all know that no one in miami is going to help you to make few thousand dollars taxfree without getting something in return! Right?
Sometime, Short sale is a marketing ploy. Buyer keeps bidding against himself with a imaginary loan officer!
A short sale is when the person doesn’t really want to sell, but is acting like it.
He/she says, hell if I can get away with proving to the lender that I’m broke and then getting the lender to accept a lower price than what I paid, they can write it down in their books as a loss, and I can get myself out of a situation where my condo won’t be appreciating any time soon, then I use my funds to buy something that’s a good deal – and try it all over again. Not to mention the imaginary bidders like someone above pointed out.
Dear Elvis and Poor and Unemployed and Piazza Armerina,
How interesting! I admire your cracking the code and demystifying a short sale. You may potentially have helped a lot of people who may be considering a short sale. Thanks!!
There are plenty of stories about people listing short sales and then avoiding potential buyers like the plague. It’s obvious a lot of people are using the process as a de facto cramdown for houses/condos they want to keep, but at a lower price.
Question remains – Why do the realtors take the listing? Recently a house came on the market in Downtown Miami area in with asking price of about a million. I had a serious all cash buyer but while it was listed as “drastically reduced”. Listing agent would not even show the property. What can one do? Call NAR?
The fake ads (outdated MLS, incorrect MLS listings) drum up phone calls which might eventually lead to a sale. NAR and DBPR know about it. Regulation is bad for the industry.
Poor and unemployed — Did you try calling the listing agent’s boss/manager? If that doesn’t work, perhaps you can find out who holds the mortgage and then call the bank directly. As people have said above, short sales are the newest source of widespread fraud in the r.e. business. (In this case, you might not get the house, but you’d at least get the satisfaction of calling some people on their B.S.)
Joe — couldn’t agree more. There is SO much fraud around short sales it is amazing. Banks should just offer a low interest rate or let the property be foreclosed upon.
Here is a nice article for floplords:
http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/28/real_estate/renting_out_home.moneymag/index.htm
Enjoy…
In general, if you see a good shortsale offering from a podunk realtor… it’s usually a scam where the owner is trying to get the property back himself. Welcome to Miami.
I just found this funny quote in a story about Michelle Obama’s (absurd and inappropriate) vacation in Spain:
“It has also been an open secret that in the regional capital of Marbella much of that money comes from the seedy-side of life, linked to **speculating in real estate,** or dirtier crimes, such as extortion, contract murders, car-thefts, arms and drugs trafficking and prostitution. It is suspected that much of those ill-gotten gains were sent to offshore accounts.”
(From: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/Examiner-Opinion-Zone/why-did-michelle-obama-choose-seedy-marbella-spain-for-her-vacation-100132144.html)
I love how “speculating in real estate” was tossed into the same sentence as “contract murders” and car thefts. LOL.
If somebody thinks Marbella is seedy, they will also think real estate speculation is dirty. The only “seedy” thing in Spain these days is our “First Lady” if you will pardon the expression. How crass, crude, ungainly and untimely her “vacation” (from what?) has been. Running to and fro up and down beautiful cobbled streets all 100 of them go, huffing and puffing, day after day. What are they looking for? And then its off to the Gulf of Mexico…for one day. Then what?
Joe
Please explain why you feel the vacation was “absurd and inappropriate.”
Because of unemployment? Oil spill? Health care? Afghanistan?
If she wants to go on vacation, what destination would be “less absurd” or deemed “appropriate?” What should she be doing this summer? Knitting sweaters for the homeless?
This is just like the auto execs flying to DC, Tony Hayward at a yacht race, Wall Street bonuses, Obama playing golf, etc. Give me a break with the Populist Revolt schtick. Its pretty simple : class envy.
Since “Joe” is obviously hard at work so he can pay his bills and estimated taxes this summer like most of us, I’ll answer for him:
A vacation is defined as a break from work. Michelle Obama does nothing, her multimillion dollar a year staff of dozens notwithstanding. That’s why her “vacation” is “absurd”. It is “inappropriate” given the terrible economic plight many are suffering worldwide as this foolish woman, her daughter and their entourage run around southern Spain staying in thousand dollar a night hotel rooms, imposing their poorly dressed selves on local dignataries (who could care less about meeting them but are well mannered enough to do so) and it is this “many” who are paying the millions of dollars this “vacation” is costing.
Her trip to Spain was a spectacle and an embarrassment.
What should she be doing this summer? Working in her tomato patch on the White House lawn – out of sight.
“Class envy”? Get serious, Drew.
Samson
This foolish woman (as you referred to her) and her husband paid over a million dollars in federal taxes in 2009. How much did you pay? Please put your white sheet back in the closet as your rant has nothing to do with Miami Condo’s
Samson must be an angry unemployed Tea Party member. Or Rush Limbaugh.
So a “vacation” is absurd since she doesn’t work? Ok, call it a “trip.” Does that lessen the level of absurdity? What’s absurd is that, according to your logic, non-working people aren’t allowed to take vacations, since by definition, a vacation presupposes employment. Sure, buddy.
And is it really that shocking or appalling that the First Lady stays in an expensive hotel? Would it be better if she lodged at a youth hostel, to, ya know, demonstrate that she is aware of “the terrible economic plight many are suffering worldwide, ” as you claim?
Hate to break it to you, but one’s status or position in society can lead to certain benefits and perks that are not always available to the common folk. Don’t be envious of others, Samson. Once you accept that a First Lady of the US will have more opportunities and advantages in life than you, you’ll be much more content.
You guys are silly… if it was GW Bush & wife going on all the outings (broadway night out, mother-in-law taking a free ride at the WH and travels, vacation after vacation after vacation, going on The View, hooping it up with celebs, etc.) you’d ALL OVER the guy on just one of these. The simple answer is Obama has no experience leading anything and it shows…a lot of lip service to jobs and the economy but all they have done is a huge political power grab with a sharp left turn to socialism that will haunt our country’s economic future for decades. Ultimately they want 60% of the population to not pay federal income taxes (and some will get refundable credits to boot…plus welfare, foodstamps, free healthcare, etc.) Change and political power grabs are NOT the things we needed…we needed certainty and prudence instead.
Oh and stop with the non-sense white sheet statement…Obama’s half white and his utter failure has nothing to do with race…(see also Jimmy Carter).
I have only one problem with her vacation. BTW the South of Spain is really very beautiful . a lot of history and fun. One can stay on the sea and every day go to GRanada, Seville, Mikhas, Gibraltar, and many many other places. Really great place to have a vacation. I would recommend everyone to go there. It is not that expensive. All you need is a hotel and a rented car. A couple of words in Spanish would not hurt.
As I mentioned one problem with her vacation is that her security is being paid by the government. I think the rest she paid herself. They could have paid security with their money and it would be alright.
Another think about this vacation.
I guess Osama bin-Laden, Al-Qaeda and the Radical Muslims of the world must be busy thanking Allah because it must be rather apparent that the destruction of the most powerful country in the world is imminent. Why else would the citizens of what was once the most powerful country in history be so panicked about the first lady spending 5 days in a luxury hotel in Spain. They have changed the way we live our life and now we are bitching and crying about the the amount of money the first lady spend on a 5 day vacation for 2. Way to go fellow Americans way to show the enemy how much of an economic super power we are. I’m sure they are ready to put down their arms now and surrender in fear of our economic and military might.
Talk about emboldening the enemy.
Keep listening to fox news and rupert murdock
Lara,
she has round the clock security wherever she goes. If she goes to LA the security is the same, the flight is just as long. She doesn’t have a choice or a say in the security detail. Would you rather she pay for private security and end up getting assassinated? As far as vacation goes, George Bush stayed on vacation that was one of the main criticism of him. He was always at his ranch even when shit was going on. Again if you don’t like it then go about changing the system. We need to make cuts so I think it is valid to ask to cut the size of the Security Service and maybe go to smaller and fewer planes for the first family.
RT- Change and political power grabs are NOT the things we needed…we needed certainty and prudence instead.
Hate to break it to you RT but Change is what he ran on and Change is what I voted for.
I am actually surprised he has accomplished as much as he has, I just wish he wouldn’t be so accommodating to the damn conservatives. I wanted Hillary because I know she is a bitch with a killer attitude, Obama is too soft, he has no killer instinct. One thing I admired about the bush administration is that they ruled like they were on a mission from God and damned be anyone who got in their way. I wish the Obama administration had that zeal. Anyway he has you and your conservatives hacks crying bloody murder so he must be doing something right that is good enough for me. I am waiting for him to piss of the dumb democrats and get on their bad side now.
Maybe if you read the fact first you might make an informed opinion.
She is a black woman in the white house, she has had a long honeymoon since she became first lady. I expected the natives to turn on her much sooner, I guess she should be thankful that she has had 18 months without the savages on her back.
she went with her good friend who was dealing with loss of her father
they paid for their vacations, The secrete service picked the hotel for security reasons
there were no large entourage as reported by media and she is REQUIRED to have the same security no matter where she goes, Secrete Service makes decisions about security detail, I can imagine a few more SS officers applying for the South of Spain Detail.
I am surprised this is even a topic worthy of so much discussion. I do think it is racism. If it was a white first lady the press would wait for facts about the trip instead of rampant speculations. They would also give Laura bush a pass or at least wait for an explanation. This media coverage has also given racist commentators an opportunity to spew their ignorance. If you don’t like the system that allows for Secrete Service to travel to Spain then change it, don’t complain about the first lady being REQIURED to use it.
Can we get back to Real Estate?
I have recently experienced a problem with a RE Agent who refuses to take my cash offer on a short sale and every time I call or ask someone to call her she comes up with a different excuse why they are no longer accepting offers on the property even though it hasn’t gone under contract. Really shady stuff going on with this agent.
Makes Me Think – You have NO IDEA what you are talking about. The U.S. Secret Service detail that goes on foreign trips is larger in a foreign country and the trip is far far far more expensive then if she traveled to LA. By the way, she is NOT required to have a USSS detail. Any protectee is free to waive it. And, the only travel expense they pay for is what a market rate air fare would be…but they take an air force jet at > 100x’s the cost. There is no need for her to take this trip especially at this time, period. Let them eat cake!
I would have preferred Hilary at this point…Obama is worse than Carter. The double dip or malaise will be ALL his fault…very poor leadership. Very poor. The decisions being made are just jaw droppingly stupid. No wonder his economic team is running away within less than 18 months of service.
Lastly, GW did NOT go on vacation more…that was a myth to portray him as a dumb, rich boy. Crawford was not vacation time…it was full day schedules.
Recent headline on cnn.com
“U.S. House of Representatives passes a $26 billion measure to help avoid teacher and U.S. House of Representatives passes a $26 billion measure to help avoid teacher and emergency-responder layoffs. layoffs.”
State bailouts… What a bunch of BS. All the money goes to the states…it is NOT really targeted for just teacher and “emergency-responders”. That is just political cover. Money is fungible and deep cuts need to be made in the states. Another bailout of outdated, socialistic unions. Unions have their place, but the teachers’ union, etc. are dinosaur relics and do nothing to help our country.
RT – The double dip or malaise will be ALL his fault…very poor leadership. Very poor. The decisions being made are just jaw droppingly stupid.
That is your opinion and like ass holes we all have one.
Your boy GW did such a great job it is no wonder he is considered one of the greatest presidents ever. I guess all the great decision he made about invading Iraq and starting 2 wars costing trillions of dollars and the tax cut he gave to the wealthy costing another trillion dollars plus the no bid prescription drug plan he gave to the drug companies costing another trillion dollars were all great decisions that have nothing to to with the structural deficit we now have. Those moves were all fine by you and makes him a genius.
RT – By the way, she is NOT required to have a USSS detail. Any protectee is free to waive it.
Is that a fact? From my understanding she has no choice since she is the wife of the sitting president. Like I said change the rules if you don’t like it. Since you know so much tell me how much a Trip to LA cost compared to the one she took in Spain. What is the price difference to the Tax payers. Like I said Al-Qaeda must be shaking in their boots because the big ol powerful USA can’t afford for the first lady to take a 5 day trip to Spain. I’m sure the enemies of this great powerful christian nation will be raising the white flag any moment now once they see the petty bickering and infighting that’s taking place. God help us all, we are going to destroy this nation from within over petty shit. Our enemies just need to sit back and watch the show.
Makes Me Think #25,
Well said Sir!!
RT -she is NOT required to have a USSS detail. Any protectee is free to waive it.
The USSS is REQUIRED by law to provide protection to the president and his family along with a host of others. If she could and did waive security then she would be called a fool and irresponsible considering we are currently fighting 2 wars. Do you even think about the Rubbish you write or does your hate for the first family of this county consume every rational thought you may have had? I used to respect your opinions even though I rarely agreed with you because I thought they were formed from a position of knowledge but it appears you are just like the rest of the lame brained hateful conservatives who post on this blog regularly. Your opinions are ill formed and irrational and are based on ignorance, hate and disrespect.
so STFU!
Protective Operations
The Secret Service is world-renowned for the physical protection it provides to the nation’s highest elected leaders and other government officials. To safeguard Secret Service protectees, the agency does not generally discuss the specific types and methods of its security operations.
In general, permanent protectees, such as the president and first lady, have details of special agents permanently assigned to them. Temporary protectees, such as candidates and foreign dignitaries, are staffed with special agents on temporary assignment from Secret Service field offices. All current former presidents are entitled to lifetime Secret Service protection. However, as a result of legislation enacted in 1997, President George W. Bush will be the first president to have his protection limited to 10 years after he leaves office.
Makes Me Think – Show me the law! A colleague was undersecretary of the treasury, enforcement which oversaw USSS so my source is pretty darn good. Any protectee can waive protection…example, former president Nixon waived lifetime protection since he thought it was a waste of taxpayer money.
You are wrong yet again.
Sooooo, U STFU!
Moreover, a USSS SAIC also told me the same thing…can be waived.
I should further clarify….. the USSS SAIC was part of the presidential protection detail.
How many times did Oboma go golfing, vacation, and meet sport teams during “the greatest natural disaster in U.S. history” Obam’s word not mine? How long did it take to go to the Gulf to get photo ops? How long is he going to blame Bush for? What has the 100 of billinions done he spent for the unions do? the only thing he has did is quickly CHANGE our country into a Solicalist country! We will see in November what the people WANT!
How many times did Oboma go golfing, vacation, play basketball, and meet sport teams during “the greatest natural disaster in U.S. history” Obam’s word snot mine? How long did it take to go to the Gulf to get photo ops? How long is he going to blame Bush for? What has the 100 of billions done he spent for the unions do? the only thing he has did is quickly CHANGE our country into a Solicalist country! We will see in November what the people WANT!
Dear swisscheese:
Obama has every right to blame George Bush for our financial problems for as long as it takes his new administration to heal our country’s awful financial wounds. If you can’t see what Bush did to ruin our economy then you need to get your head out of your cheese hole dude!
Oh and by the way – I lived in a European country for more than one third of my life and, guess what, a little socialism ain’t so bad. Try it, you’ll like!
Drew said: “This is just like the auto execs flying to DC, Tony Hayward at a yacht race, Wall Street bonuses, Obama playing golf, etc. Give me a break with the Populist Revolt schtick. Its pretty simple : class envy.”
— Ha ha ha ha. Are you kidding me? Barack and Michelle Obama are the freaking KING and QUEEN of class envy. How do you think Obama got elected?
——
Makes Me Think said: “One thing I admired about the bush administration is that they ruled like they were on a mission from God and damned be anyone who got in their way.”
— This is complete nonsense. If this was even remotely true, then why were *conservatives* so angry at Bush when he left office? If your comment was accurate, the right wing would have been enthralled with Bush when he left office.
Joe Please,
the right wing nuts love Bush.
why else did he invade Iraq when the whole world told him not to. Why did he fabricate evidence against a sovereign nation then declare war on them. Where are the weapons of mass destruction? Bush F-up so bad presidents for the next generation will be blaming him. I know some here would like us to forget about all the damage Bush and his boys caused but we will never forget cause we don’t want to repeat it.
RT, Show me where it says the president and his wife can refuse protection otherwise it doesn’t exist. I’ve heard recently where the president said he would just like to go on a simple walk without his detail but they wouldn’t allow it.
I don’t want to argue silly points with you. My point is that it would be asinine of her to refuse protection and it is asinine of you to even suggest such.
Drew:
Here, in this country, the word “secret” is spelled just like that: “secret”. “Secrete”, as you have spelled it being either illiterate or from elsewhere, on the other hand, means to hide, to conceal (as in “The photos from the First Lady’s embarrassing trip to Spain were secreted in a vault in Chicago”) or to produce, to discharge (as in “The drool was secreted from the gum being chewed in the First Lady’s mouth as she ran to and fro and up and down and all over in southern Spain looking for what God knows”).
Renter Tom:
All good points, as usual. Who are these people? “Makes Me Think”, for example? “What do I do”, he whines, “she won’t call me back”. Is this a real estate question suitable for this fine blog and its well informed contributors, like your good self?
Makes Me Think — It seems your math skills are as faulty as your other logic around here. There are twice as many self-described conservatives in the U.S. as self-described liberals, yet somehow Bush left office with an approval rating in the 20s or 30s. Please explain how an approval rating in the 20s or 30s could have been possible if “all right-wingers love Bush.”
Samson
1. You’re not even remotely funny.
2. Before calling people illiterate, maybe you should learn how to count and read yourself. I didn’t write “secrete” – that was MMT #18.
3. Your empty retort shows you have no ability to provide any intelligent analysis here. Good night.
Drew:
You’re absolutely right. My apologies.
Not sure USSS is so great based on its past with Kennedy and Reagan
Remind me how the First Lady, Secret Service, or Obama are connected to short sales? This comment thread has veered off into uselessness.
What happened to AJ? Finally got foreclosed on? Or perhaps he engineered one of these shady short sales?
Mike — AJ has been gone for 6 months or so.
The real question is: Where’s Gixxer 1000? I wonder if, after armchair quarterbacking from afar all year, he finally got a taste of the “real” Miami and ran back north to safety. Ha ha.
Stick to the topic. If you wanna talk about the Obama’s post on someone elses blog.
Well, at least my Obama joke brought this place back to life. There were only about 10 comments in the last week here prior to that.
I’m still here and actually like it more now that I’m here full time. I’ve been shuffling back and forth between hotels and a friends place in Ft. Lauderdale while looking for a place. I finally decided on a nice 2/2 at 1060 Brickell. I love the building and I love the area. The front of 1060 is right on Brickell ave. and the back leads right into Mary Brickell Village. I’ll probably write a little more detailing my experience when I get more time. I can definitely confirm the momentum is shifting back towards the owners. I offered $50 less on a $1750 1 bedroom at 500 Brickell and the owner rejected it. I also looked at two units at 1060 and then went home to discuss it with my fiance and when I called back the next day both units were gone. So I ended up taking another unit a few floors lower for $50 less.
I’ve learned that even the smartest people turn into complete idiots when it comes to politics and religion, so I try to avoid those subjects.
Gixxer 1000 — Glad you found a place. Was this a change of plans for you? For some reason, I thought you had a place lined up before you made the move to Miami.
Gixxer 1000 — BTW, I don’t doubt that owners are getting a little more aggressive in their pricing, but I’m curious how long it will last. The U.S. economic numbers are just god-awful, and with the huge tax increases going into effect in only 4-plus months, 2011 could be an economic bloodbath.
I suppose tax increases could actually make Florida more attractive for people, but at some point, it seems like the Miami job market has to have an effect on housing prices/trends. A true crackdown on immigration also seems like it would be bad for Miami, at least in some macro senses. (As a resident, I think it would be great, but it could hurt the r.e. market, among other things.)
i’m no obama supporter…but this argument about michelle’s vacation requires a little levity. bush’s iraq brainfart is at what now? a trillion dollars and how many dead? i’ll take south of spain vacations over a war that led to the death of 4,000+ american kids, fathers, and mothers any day of the week. and let’s be clear on where i stand – i’m a republican at heart.
ANYWAY, not to sure that the pendulum is swinging back to owners. rents in brickell may be rising but then that means that rents on the beach/gables etc. are taking a hit. i think you see as much by the folks that are renting in these buildings: young. a few years back, they would be looking at the beach. as for single family homes, prices still seem cheap. condos to me are still a poor idea (the HOA situation is not really getting better for many buildings and that’s all that matters in my mind).
and if you want some comm’l office space, come on down. the market is cannibalizing itself in downtown and brickell. wachovia tower is losing two of its main tenants with no one to step up; the GT building is going to be what once GT moves to met 2? a quarter empty? no one out there to take any of this space.
jcrimes — But Miami is different! The normal rules don’t apply here! You need to buy now or you’ll be priced out of the market!! (LOL.)
Another factor regarding Brickell rents is that during July-Sept, you’ll have an influx of students trying to secure housing in the area for the upcoming school year. Mostly Grad Students, but I’m sure you’ll find significant numbers of Juniors/Seniors.
Also, do 1st year professionals generally start jobs in September?
ie. Is it typical to graduate law/med/CPA or whatever school, take the summer off then start working in Sept?
maybe not the right place, but I’m looking to move from NYC to Miami sometime within the next few months. Any insight as to where to look for job opportunities would be greatly appreciated. I am 30 years old and currently work in operations for a financial company. My previous experience is in executive recruitment. Any advice from the sage commentators here on the site?
Law students usually graduate sometime around May then study and take the bar exam over the summer before starting their job if they have one around September. It’s not set in stone but this is pretty typical.
AA
if you speak some spanish, i would look to the latin banks down here or some of the smaller banks (gibraltar or lydian)
Joe I’m sure you approve of the mosque in NYC, I will buy you a one way ticket to France if you renounce your US citizenship.
thanks Jcrimes. Sadly my spanish isn’t too polished right now which is proving to be an issue… Ill look into them either way.
AA
Then don’t waste your time with the Spanish banks. A non-bilingual (presumably) white guy has about as good a chance landing a job with Espirito Santo or Banco Santander as I have landing a job as a South Beach go-go dancer.
The odds are not in your favor. Unless your family are cartel middlemen.
Good luck.
Drew thanks I appreciate the feedback. Do you or does anyone else have any other suggestions? I work in operations currently basically in product development as well as managing teams in India. I dont need to work in finance, so I’m open to hear anyones ideas.
Thanks!
AA, why bother with Miami?
I guess you haven’t been reading this blog for too long, why else would someone from NY (or anywhere else) want to move to the cesspool we call Miami. I’m sure you will find a nice Midwestern city more to you liking.
Makes Me Think,
Ive been visiting miami for years, and have always toyed with the idea of relocating there. I’ve been in NYC for almost a decade and need a change. I love the weather, the beach, etc.. also its only a 2 hr flight from my family. NYC will be here so I can always come back..
AA – I love the weather, the beach, etc.
Yeah but there is nothing special about Miami’s weather or beaches or it being 2 hours from NYC with hourly flights from 2 different airports less than an hour apart.. I’m sure you can find that in any other state in this great country of ours. There is nothing unique about that, according to our resident expert Joe.
Makes Me Think — Are you naturally obtuse, or do you just enjoy trolling on blogs?
For what seems like the thousandth time, I love Miami personally, and I *do* believe it’s special in a lot of ways. But Miami is only special for people who *don’t* need to make money *in* Miami. This guy “AA” is a perfect example. A non-Spanish-speaking person who comes to Miami has almost no shot at any sort of high-paying professional job these days (hell, there aren’t that many great jobs for Spanish speakers, either), and if a person is lucky enough to find such a job, he/she will likely make a lot less than he/she could make elsewhere for doing the same job. Now, taking a pay cut like that might be fine if Miami’s cost of living was also lower, but it’s not. For the most part, workers get screwed coming and going in Miami.
THIS is my position on Miami, and it always has been. What part of this is so hard for you to understand?
“swisschesse” said: “Joe I’m sure you approve of the mosque in NYC, I will buy you a one way ticket to France if you renounce your US citizenship.”
— Are you drunk? You agreed with me in #32. Now you’re trolling, too?
Makes Me Think — Part of my post #63 seems to have gone AWOL. This is what the ending should have said:
Coming to Miami self-employed and/or financially secure? Miami is paradise.
Coming to Miami in search of well-paying work? Miami will probably eat you alive.
THIS is my position on Miami, and it always has been. What part of this is so hard for you to understand?
I think Joe has a point
“Coming to Miami self-employed and/or financially secure? Miami is paradise.
Coming to Miami in search of well-paying work? Miami will probably eat you alive.
Guys,
What are your thoughts concerning mortgage interest rates moving lowering even more then they already have?
Tonight I started the process to refi my loan for my condo I bought at the end of last year at infinity at brickell,
I am going from a 5.25% 30 year fixed conv to a 3.75 % 15 year fixed conv.
It will cost me $267 more per month, but it will pay off 15 years eariler and save me $87,000 in interest.
In order to get that rate I would need to pay 1/2 point in orgination and I will roll my costing costs into my loan amount.
My only out of packet cost I be my apprisal fee. I can still get out of the deal, but WHAT do you guys think, should I refi with this deal or should I get out of it and wait until the interest rates lower so more.
I have a 773 credit score and a very very low debit/income ratio, so I can obtain another refi loan later once rates fall some more without a problem.
Do you think rates will go down some more? if so how much? Should I take this deal or wait. Please advise, Thanks
why bother said
I think Joe has a point
“Coming to Miami self-employed and/or financially secure? Miami is paradise.
Coming to Miami in search of well-paying work? Miami will probably eat you alive.
====> I guess I am the self employed person and when I am working managing a project I am finanically secure, so I guess that is why Miami is a paradise to me
====> I sure hope is not true for the rest of folks that want to make miami their home. It is very sad if it’s true.
owneratinfinity, we will probably not get interest rates significantly lower than . you can refi at over 1% lower than your current rate-on both 15 and 30 years. my guess is we will have another 6 months to a year at these low rates. refi and save the money. can you prepay your current 30 year without penalty?
Owner, just run for it and run wth it. Just $200+ more a month to reduce a 30 year to 15 year! no brainer. Take it.
owneratinfinity, I would go for it. As a matter of fact, my wife works for BoA and we are going to do a similar refi. You will build equity and same yourself a good amount of interest. If you can swing the $267/month its a great deal for the long run. Not sure if rates will go down but with all the tax and spending going on they certainly will not remain the same. Good luck!
Does anyone have any comments on the Cosmopolitan @ South Beach? Looking at condoreports it looks fairly decent. The area is excellent as well. Looking for info on overall building condition, HOA, renters vs Owners, etc. Any info would be greatly appreciated. TIA!
Miami2009, had friends who lived in the area for a while-yacht club. they did not mind the cosmopolitan-it seemed like a well run building. the problem can be parking (everywhere in sobe) and the units tended to be rather small. sofi are is a great location and everything is very walkable from cosmo-assuming you dont want waterfront. personally i think you can get better digs in brickell, but you wont be unhappy with cosmo.
Joe, I disagree with you about having to be rich to live in Miami. It might be true for the majority of folks but I have a friend who has a job as a consultant. Doesn’t make lots of money but his job has him traveling to different sites. He choose to move to Miami because of the location and the fact that there are 2 airports with easy access to client sites sorta like owneratinfinity. More and more people can work from anywhere as long as they have easy access to airports.
Gables thx for the info. I have to agree on the parking situation in sobe. We are just looking for a small unit near the beach for now until we can move down permanently.
Oh and yes I would love a waterfront unit sofi but just can’t swing it. Cosmo seems like a decent building in a great area. Thx again for the comments.
Makes Me Think — That’s the best you can do for a rebuttal? One person?
I guess it didn’t occur to you that pointing to a person who lives in Miami but doesn’t actually WORK in Miami helps to prove *my* point (in #65 above) rather than yours. Your claims will be much more persuasive if you can find hundreds (or, better yet, thousands) of people who move to Miami and find great, well-paying jobs. (But we both know that’s not happening, so I’m not holding my breath for a better rebuttal from you.)
gables, you said
owneratinfinity, we will probably not get interest rates significantly lower than . you can refi at over 1% lower than your current rate-on both 15 and 30 years. my guess is we will have another 6 months to a year at these low rates. refi and save the money. can you prepay your current 30 year without penalty?
—-> Yes, it was a 20% down conv loan from bank of america with no prepayment penalty
joe, you are being silly again.
Owner and AA and but two examples of people who works as consultants and are willing to live in miami but have projects in other places. I am sure there are many others like that. The point being that you don’t need to work in Miami to live there. Your point has been that Miami doesn’t have jobs therefore people like AA, Owner and my friend won’t be willing to live there.
Makes Me Think — No, I’m not being silly; you’re being obtuse.
“owneratinfinity” came to Miami *WITH* a job, so he’s hardly an indicator of Miami being an employment hot spot. Meanwhile, this guy “AA” has *NO* job, so I’m baffled as to how you believe he bolsters your point in any way.
——
Makes Me Think said: “Your point has been that Miami doesn’t have jobs therefore people like AA, Owner and my friend won’t be willing to live there.”
— No, this is my point, verbatim:
“Coming to Miami self-employed and/or financially secure? Miami is paradise.
Coming to Miami in search of well-paying work? Miami will probably eat you alive.”
A person who can live in Miami without actually WORKING in Miami falls into the “financially secure” category, not the “came to Miami and found a great job” category.
Seriously, what’s so hard to grasp about this simple concept? Why do you so consistently misrepresent other people’s views? Is it because you enjoy trolling?
Joe,
I have manged three projects since I moved to miami and made miami my home and my home base.
And just FYI the first two projects were in Miami,
The third project, I am currently managing, that started recently, is in the New England area. I could of got a job in Miami I had some other options, however I took the project in New England
True it was a very high rate, however I don’t need to make that high bill rate, my expenses are veery low, so I don’t need that much money.
The main reason I took the project, was so I could visit new england during the summer and fall, drop my top on my car on the weekends and drive through the new england county side.
Also, I took the project in new england because when the project completes I plan to drive to the west and then back to the east to maimi (take a driving tour of the US). It will be 8000 miles and will take me about a month to complete.
I have traveled many place with the US, (and the world) however I never took I driving trip through the US. The US is my country so I want to see it alll.
To make a long story short, there are jobs for guys like me in the miami (sf area). I am not forced to work out of the state of florida,
I just wanted something different.
Also, FYI, when I came to Miami I didn’t have a project to manage, however I went on interviews and I got a job. Generally I get a job after 2 trys with different companies.
Due to my exp, I would be considered a big fish in Miami’s little pond.
But like I said before I didn’t make miami my home and home base because I wanted to make a lot of money in my career working in Miami.
I picked Miami (and could of picked any where) because I born there and I wanted to live in place warm and I place I can enjoy being outside 24/7 365.
Plus miami is very interesting, excellent dating (I came very marketable in the dating scene since I moved to maimi) and is only 9/10 hours to rome and paris when I ready for a biking trip though rome and france.
Guys,
Here is an update on my refi on my condo at infinity,,,
When I brought it the building had full Famie Mae approval, but that approval expired and the developer just got conditional approval until Jan.
I will close before Jan, however I asked my loan rep at Well Fargo it they will have any problems with doing a refi loan on the building since it has only conditional approval from Famie Mae
I will let you guys know that the outcome is. If they don’t allow it, I will check with other lenders, I could always refi it with bank of america since they they are my orig lender, but b of a rates for much higher then Well Fargo
FYI well fargo’s rate went up 1/8 of a point today, comparied to what I locked in for on Friday (I locked 3.75 and it’s good for 90 days)
owneratinfinity — You came to Miami with money, correct? (I assume that’s correct, since you keep telling us about the upscale condo you bought.)
If so, as I said above, that puts you in the “financially secure” category, not in the “came to Miami, found a job, and got wealthy” category.
Joe,
you said
owneratinfinity — You came to Miami with money, correct? (I assume that’s correct, since you keep telling us about the upscale condo you bought.)
If so, as I said above, that puts you in the “financially secure” category, not in the “came to Miami, found a job, and got wealthy” category.
—-> Like I said before I was born in Miami….
—–> By the time I was 19 I worked my way through college in the computer field and obtained my BS computer degree and bought my first house in fort lauderdale. I made good money for my age which allowed me to buy a place. Plus I had roomates to help with the mortgage.
—–> I did leave miami when I was young and now I am back, but I would of made nearly the same money and got nearly as weathly and I would of bought the same condo in the same building if I never would of left florida.
—–> I know I could of been just as successfully it I would stayed in Miami
—-> I have found 2 jobs in Miami during the recent bad market, so if you have something to often then employers will hire you. It’s that simple.
—–> Also remember I didn’t pay much for my condo at infinity, my condo was 100K less then what I sold my last house for in another state – a state that had very cheap housing.
—–> but to anwser your question, yes I had some money when I came to florida, but it was just normal money that most folks have that are professionals and that work hard for a living and saving their money and make good choices.
—–> I only put down 20% to buy my place so that was not that much money, plus I think my condo is nice but it’s not upsale like my house was. But it’s all I need. I like living a small green footprint.
——> yes, I guess I am financially secure, but not because I have that much money in bank, it because I have skill sets and exp that allows be to earn a high income when I am working.
—–> In my first 4 weeks managing this new project I made $14,500 before taxes and my expenses are very low, I need $32K take home per to live my basic miami lifesyle. I had one project that I made $3ok per month because I had a very high rate and worked 60 work weeks. And plus I was luckly to be at the right place at the right time.
——> Also I am financially secure because I live well under means and try to make good decsions, many peolpe do the reverse
—–> I bottom line is, if you have a good money making career and you are good at it with the right exp, and you are a hard worked then you can make money anywhere, including Florida.
In the last couple of months I have be able to meet plenty of recent grads (most of whom aren’t from Miami) from UM that seem to be doing pretty good for themselves. I don’t know there finances but I know they have student loans so they obviously didn’t come here loaded. Now there working decent jobs, nice cars, live in Brickell, etc.
I agree that if you’re working a minimum wage job then moving to Miami isn’t the best career move. But the same could be said for most big cities. From what I have seen if you’re educated (or coming to Miami to get educated) you’ve got a pretty decent chance of doing something. For whatever reason a lot of the local people just don’t have the same work ethic and respect for education. So simply getting educated already puts you above the majority of the people here. This is much different than places like DC and NY where the vast majority of people are educated. When I tell people I go to UM they think its hard to get in and to be honest it was the easiest school of all the ones I applied to and I probably wouldn’t have come if it weren’t for the scholarship money.
Gixxer thanks for the encouragement, my search continues….
joe, I don’t know what the hell you are talking about.
People who live in Miami but can work in other states or work from home and travel to client sites are well off. This whole discussion started because you said the Condos won’t sell because there is no one to buy them since there are no well paying jobs. I’m simply trying to point out that the condo can sell since Miami is a desirable destination people like our friends AA, Owner and others don’t need a job in Miami to buy or move to Miami. How am I changing the conversation? The world has changed and many people can work from anywhere as long as there is reliable Internet connections and nearby airports with frequent flights. Miami fits that bill, therefore you see people like my friend and AA moving to Miami even though there are no well paying Jobs.
You need to check yourself and stop trying to back out of you silly/outdated theory.
Just admit you may be wrong on some of your assumptions about the desirability of Miami because you are being proven wrong everyday.
Sounds like Joe was one of those guys who didn’t have the balls or the brains to make it Miami, now pissed off and trying to argue that its nearly impossible to make money and have a decent job in South Fla without being born with a silver spoon in your mouth…which is an absurd proposition.
Joe you remind me of all the Miami anglos in the 70’s/80’s that couldn’t tolerate the city’s transformation and as a result picked up and moved to North Carolina or Tennessee. Do you fall into that category?
Good grief. Talking to you guys is like talking to a wall.
Can someone — anyone! — please list some examples of all these great jobs that are available in Miami? Also, how about listing some great jobs that are available for non-Spanish-speaking people like this “AA” guy?
You people are seriously delusional. What are the biggest companies based in Miami? Burger King? Some cruise line? Good luck getting wealthy working for them.
I seriously can’t tell if you guys are really rich or, more likely, you just enjoy trolling on the internet. Otherwise, the constant head-in-sand mentality is really amazing, even by Miami standards.
Study after study has shown that Miami offers a below-average job market with below-average salaries PLUS the added insult/injury of a HIGHER cost of living. And you guys think that’s a recipe for getting ahead? Ha ha ha.
I tossed out my theory on Miami a week ago and so far, all we have is ONE — count ’em, ONE — example as a rebuttal (some random friend of “Makes Me Think”). That’s so absurd I can’t believe it. If I was wrong, you dolts should be saying, “Oh, my God, I know 30 people who moved here from N.Y. and D.C. and got rich!” But no one has said that.
For the hundredth time, if there were so many young professionals making good money in Miami, there wouldn’t be over 5,000 new condos still available some THREE YEARS into the r.e. crash. If Miami is so chock full of good jobs, how is it possible that a lousy 22,000 condos haven’t been absorbed by the over 2,500,000 people — 2.5 MILLION PEOPLE! — in Miami-Dade? Seriously, how is that possible?
You people need to get real. You look silly with your heads in the sand.
——
Oh, and Drew, are you slow or what? I’ve said at least 100 times that I live in Miami, but that I’m spending a year out of the country for work. Try to keep up.
Joe,
Here is a list of some of the companies that have recently hired UM graduates at both the undergrad and graduate level in the past year.
KPMG
Deloitte
PricewaterhouseCoopers
Unilever
Goldman Sachs Group
IBM
Credit Suisse Group
Merrill Lynch
JPMorgan Chase & Co.
Ernst & Young
Target Corp.
Nestle
Procter & Gamble
NW Mutual
Teach for America
Crowe Horwath
MassMutual
General Dynamics
Lockheed Martin
FGI Risk Services
Bayview Financial
Northern Trust
Morrison, Brown, Argiz & Farra LLP
Raymond James
CIA
So as you can see there are jobs available in Miami in Finance, Accounting, Government, Consulting, Technology, Media/Entertainment, etc.
If I recall correctly the nickname for Met 1 is “Deloitte dorm” because so many consultants work there. The jobs are available in Miami if you’re qualified. Where do you think this mass influx of young renters into downtown is coming from. Where do you think the young people paying $1500 – $2500 rent are working at???
Gixxer 1000 — As with “Makes Me Think,” you seem to be responding to a comment I never made. I never said there were NO jobs in Miami; I said the general employment outlook in Miami is neither good nor improving.
At least a dozen times this year, I’ve challenged people here to list companies that brought new, good jobs to Miami — again, NEW jobs, not just normal turnover — and no one has posted anything.
As for the “mass influx of young renters into downtown,” are you claiming there’s some sort of 1:1 ratio between new downtown residents and NEW JOBS? If so, you’re nuts. As has been discussed here ad nauseam, the downtown rental market is simply cannibalizing other areas of Miami-Dade, primarily the Beach and the old commuter areas (e.g., Kendall).
As has also been discussed ad nauseam, a large number of the people renting downtown are only able to do so because a floplord got stuck with a condo he/she wanted to flip. If Miami was so truly chock full of well-paid professionals, you’d be pointing at OWNERSHIP numbers rather than rental numbers. And you’d also have an answer to why, with over 2,500,000 people in Miami-Dade, over 5,000 of Miami’s 22,000 new condos are still unsold some 2-3 years into the r.e. bust. Seriously, 22,000 condos = just 0.0088% of Miami-Dade’s population. And yet, 2-3 years into the bust, fully 25% of those condos remain unsold. That hardly sounds like a booming, wealthy area to me.
Joe,
“As with “Makes Me Think,” you seem to be responding to a comment I never made. I never said there were NO jobs in Miami; I said the general employment outlook in Miami is neither good nor improving.”
That’s funny, because that’s not what you are saying right here:
“Coming to Miami self-employed and/or financially secure? Miami is paradise.
Coming to Miami in search of well-paying work? Miami will probably eat you alive.”
You have stated this multiple times. And I AGREE with this point if you’re talking about most blue collar workers. But the same could be said for NY, DC, LA, Chi, Bos, etc. If you’re not extremely qualified and/or connected and you simply show up in any big city you’re probably screwed, especially with the current state of our economy.
However if you are qualified and educated it seems to be pretty decent here. And to illustrate my point I posted companies that have hired people withing the last year, most who weren’t from Miami and landed well paying jobs.
Now all of a sudden you’ve switched the argument to new jobs and I really don’t see you’re point. These people were all hired at these companies within the last year so to me they are new jobs. And why would the person getting the job car if it’s a new job or not. I guess it sucks if someone was fired just so they can hire you but I doubt that person is going to lose sleep of the guy that held his position before him.
So it seems like now you’re trying to shift the argument and say that the employment market isn’t improving which again depends on which jobs you are talking about. If you’re talking about construction then yes its pretty bad with construction unemployment at 17%. But financial services isn’t so bad with unemployment at 6%. Also the unemployment rate of people with only a high school diploma is 10% while the unemployment rate of people with a bachelors degree is 5%.
I’m not saying the Miami economy is doing great, I’m just saying the losses aren’t being distributed equally. So again in response to this point:
“Coming to Miami self-employed and/or financially secure? Miami is paradise.
Coming to Miami in search of well-paying work? Miami will probably eat you alive.”
I’m simply illustrated that you can come to Miami and find well-paying work if you are qualified.
“As for the “mass influx of young renters into downtown,” are you claiming there’s some sort of 1:1 ratio between new downtown residents and NEW JOBS? If so, you’re nuts. As has been discussed here ad nauseam, the downtown rental market is simply cannibalizing other areas of Miami-Dade, primarily the Beach and the old commuter areas (e.g., Kendall).”
The massive amount of people moving into downtown AREN’T from MIAMI. I agree that there are many people coming downtown instead of going to the beach for example but regardless they didn’t live in Miami before they moved downtown. They either moved here with a job already lined up, as a student like me or was previously a student and now work a job here. I don’t know if it was a “new job” or not. They may be hiring someone because they laid off someone last year, I don’t know and don’t care. But I can tell you that these people were NOT working in Miami a few years ago. Example: My Realtor (sorry Lucas) is a UM graduate that is not from Miami, but he now lives in Brickell. Another example, a friend that I met through school graduated last year and she now works for a local developer. She didn’t not live or work in Miami a few years ago. The list goes on and on. Of all the people I have met through school since I have been here I would say about 80% of them are not from Miami and they are now employed in well paying jobs.
So how is it that I have met dozens of people who are not from Miami but yet now have a well paying job here??? Now maybe my perspective is a little different because the majority of the people I’ve met are UM students/alums. I’m sure I could go to South Beach and find countless people who moved here with no skills and are working as a server at best. But that’s my whole point. The people at UM are obviously more qualified and making more connections than people serving coffee.
“As has also been discussed ad nauseam, a large number of the people renting downtown are only able to do so because a floplord got stuck with a condo he/she wanted to flip. If Miami was so truly chock full of well-paid professionals, you’d be pointing at OWNERSHIP numbers rather than rental numbers”
Whether someone chooses to rent or buy has nothing to do with whether or not they have a well paying job. If a young professional can afford $1900 rent at Icon why do you care if they rather rent there or get a mortgage somewhere else. Regardless the person can afford $1900 a month which to me means they have a well paying job.
“And you’d also have an answer to why, with over 2,500,000 people in Miami-Dade, over 5,000 of Miami’s 22,000 new condos are still unsold some 2-3 years into the r.e. bust. Seriously, 22,000 condos = just 0.0088% of Miami-Dade’s population. And yet, 2-3 years into the bust, fully 25% of those condos remain unsold. That hardly sounds like a booming, wealthy area to me.”
This is such a ridiculous argument. It doesn’t take into account total housing available. No one is denying that they OVERBUILT condos and created too much supply. This has nothing to do with the wealth of an area.
If Lamborghini decided to triple their production I’m sure they would have a lot more vehicles unsold at dealerships. That doesn’t change the wealth of the people buying or leasing them.
Oh really Joe? So you do maintain a residence in Miami? Where?
What country are you currently working in? Rwanada? What do you do exactly? Do you want to meet me for a sandwich at TGI Friday’s on Ocean Drive when you get back to Miami? You sound like a real fun guy to hang out with.
Another obvious example I left out was my fiance. In DC she worked at the embassy of her native country, but prior to that she was a manager at retail store. So a month prior to us moving she quit the job at the embassy and went back to working at the retail store (she worked there maybe once or twice a month to stay on the payroll). She then looked into transferring to one of the local stores here. After a few interviews she landed the job here. And the pay here is the same as it was in DC (although it is less than the pay at the embassy). They actually had two positions open. Now I don’t know why they had two positions open when unemployment is 12% down here, but they did.
I don’t know if its the sunshine or what down here but a lot of the people here tend to be very lazy when compared to the northeast. They’re not educated, involved with organizations, volunteering or anything and then they just sit around and complain about the economy. I actually love it. It makes it easier for me to run circles around them.
Makes Me Think,
You said
I’m simply trying to point out that the condo can sell since Miami is a desirable destination people like our friends
AND
The world has changed and many people can work from anywhere as long as there is reliable Internet connections and nearby airports with frequent flights. Miami fits that bill, therefore you see people like my friend and AA moving to Miami even though there are no well paying Jobs.
—–> I agree with you 100% on both items. I have traveled all over the US and the world and I when explained how a live in nice new condo on the 50 and 51 floors in the best area of urban Miami with an amazing bay, ocean and city view and how little I paid for it they are shocked!! They would love to buy a place in Miami as a 2nd home. Most people I meet world wide would give their left (and right) nut to have a condo on high floor with a amazing water view in Miami.
—–> So Miami is a very desirable destination, one of the most desirable destinations in the US and in the world. These empty condos will sell, first to investors who rent them, but then in 5 to 10 years investors will resale (once prices go up) to end users like me or to end users for 2nd homes. I think by then 50% of the units will be 2nd homes or owned by people who have money and don’t work in Florida or travel for their and want a home base where it is warm.
——> but to be honest, there are just too many condos in maimi to be sold to folks who work in Miami, but that is OK I look forward to living in a building where 50% of the units are owned by 2nd home owners.
——> The world has changed and many people can work from anywhere as long as there is reliable Internet connections and nearby airports with frequent flights — that is exactly what I was thinking when I picked Miami as my home base —other folks will think me too, I can’t be that unique
—–> Living in a new condo on very high floor facing one of the most beautiful water views in the world and living in a very interesting city with lots of beautiful young people is what a call “a life less ordinary”
—> There are a 1,000,000 houses in the 10,000 burbs, but there is only a hand full of condos on very high floors with this amazing view of water in the US
–> I can’t be the only person that thinks like this…
—->I don’t agree that Miami has no well paying Jobs, like I said before I can make over 100K a year manging projects in Maimi. If you have the right skills and a high paying career you can make real money anywhere including Miami,
Joe,
you said… Also, how about listing some great jobs that are available for non-Spanish-speaking people like this “AA” guy?
—> just FYI, I do not speak Spanish at all, however I found 2 job managing IT resources in Miami without needing to know Spanish, so you don’t need to know spanish for all jobs.
—-> You only need to know spanish if you have spanish clients (because you sell burgers in a fast place or you are a professional how deals with spanish clients)
—-> I work with english speaking tech IT peolpe and IT management, only the OLD tech resources speak only spanish with limited english
—-> In miami young tech IT resources all speak english (and spanish may be there 2nd laug)
—–> no knowing spanish is not that big of a deal as you think for professional jobs in Miami
Gixxer 1000 ,
you said
I don’t know if its the sunshine or what down here but a lot of the people here tend to be very lazy when compared to the northeast. They’re not educated, involved with organizations, volunteering or anything and then they just sit around and complain about the economy. I actually love it. It makes it easier for me to run circles around them.
—-> you are so right!!! When I interview for my Maimi projects to manage I need to dumb myself down just so I don’t scare the person who is interviewing me thinking that I want their job
—–> When I came to miami I saw that I was a very BIG fish in the little miami pond
—-> judging from all you comments on this blog you will be a BIG fish in Miami too and you find a way to make real money in Miami or anywhere like I did
—–> again judging that your comments I am sure in 10 or 12 years from now when you are my age you will be making real money (well over 100K per year) in Miami or what ever city you are living in
Gixxer 1000 — I’m not shifting the argument at all. If you seriously believe that an area that only turns jobs over, rather than adding good, new jobs year over year, can be considered a growing, prosperous area, you have a very strange idea of economic growth. Very strange.
As I’ve said before, the average Miami resident is only 2% better off today, in real terms, than he or she was in 1985. TWO PERCENT. Does that sound like a booming city to you?
——
Drew — Thanks for the invite, but I’ll pass. You’re actually way more snarky than I am, without ever actually contributing anything meaningful to the dialogue.
——
owneratinfinity said: “but to be honest, there are just too many condos in maimi to be sold to folks who work in Miami, but that is OK I look forward to living in a building where 50% of the units are owned by 2nd home owners.”
— Whoa, whoa … what’s this? There are “just too many condos in [M]iami to be sold to folks who work in Miami”? Really? I’ve been making this exact same point for a week, but people are telling me I’m an idiot. I hope Gixxer 1000 and Drew start attacking you as well, just out of fairness.
——
Gixxer 1000 said “I don’t know if its the sunshine or what down here but a lot of the people here tend to be very lazy when compared to the northeast. They’re not educated, …”
— And here again, one of my detractors actually bolsters my point. Why, dear Gixxer, would any company bring good, well-paying jobs to an area featuring a workforce such as the one you described? Obviously, they wouldn’t, and they don’t. That’s been my point all along.
As for your rosy employment numbers for Miami, you might want to take a tour of all the shuttered financial services and banking outlets in and around downtown Miami. You might also want to take a look at the glut of commercial real estate space, which will be the Miami r.e. market’s next armageddon.
Joe,
You said
owneratinfinity said: “but to be honest, there are just too many condos in maimi to be sold to folks who work in Miami, but that is OK I look forward to living in a building where 50% of the units are owned by 2nd home owners.”
— Whoa, whoa … what’s this? There are “just too many condos in [M]iami to be sold to folks who work in Miami”? Really? I’ve been making this exact same point for a week, but people are telling me I’m an idiot. I hope Gixxer 1000 and Drew start attacking you as well, just out of fairness.
======> I am sure most folks on this blog would agree that these developers that built these 100 plus new mega condo buildings (and the banks that finaniced their construction loans) NEVER expected that the folks that would BUY this all these 23,0000 new units would be BUYERS that have regular jobs in the miami (south florida area)
=======> They all knew and banked on the fact that 50% or more of then would to bought by folks who don’t have jobs in maimi and sf.
=======> They expected over 50% to be owned as 2nd homes and investment properties
=======> So you need to stop expecting the local Miami working peolpe are going to buy these condos
=======> Brickell condo building will eventally become a 50% part time 2nd homes, 30% rental and 20% prime home end users like me.
=======> It will be a vacation place to live forever, like miamu beach, cause not everyone with high incomes earned in Miami want to or can live in a condo full time
========> And is NOTHING wrong with this. It’s just as if developers built 10,000 upscale condos in the DR. There is not enough high income peolpe in the DR that want to live in condos, therefore americas and other swould buy them as 2nd homes, that is what is eventaly going to happen to Brickell and downtown Miami – IT WILL BE A VACATION AREA, just Miami Beach Is.
=======> So you need to except this and see what Brickell and Downtown will be. Stop expecting so much from the Miami job market,
========> folks in the miami job market are not going to buy the bulk of these condos! AM I OWNER and I am OK with this and in living in Vacation area.
Gixxer,
Thanks for the list, I am approaching these companies (and more) and will try and keep people here updated on the progress (if any), unless no one really cares!
Joe,
“I’m not shifting the argument at all. If you seriously believe that an area that only turns jobs over, rather than adding good, new jobs year over year, can be considered a growing, prosperous area, you have a very strange idea of economic growth. Very strange.”
You’re shifting the argument in the very same sentence that you’re claiming you’re not shifting the argument. Again I’m responding to this:
“Coming to Miami self-employed and/or financially secure? Miami is paradise.
Coming to Miami in search of well-paying work? Miami will probably eat you alive.
THIS is my position on Miami, and it always has been. What part of this is so hard for you to understand?”
This argument has nothing to do with the difference between adding new jobs and turning over old jobs. You’re argument is that if you come to Miami in search of well paying work Miami will eat you alive. And again I have posted numerous examples, companies, etc.where people have come to Miami, found well paying work and not been eaten alive.
I have made no claims about Miami being a growing or prosperous area. Simply that if you are qualified you can come to Miami and find well paying employment.
“Whoa, whoa … what’s this? There are “just too many condos in [M]iami to be sold to folks who work in Miami”? Really? I’ve been making this exact same point for a week, but people are telling me I’m an idiot. I hope Gixxer 1000 and Drew start attacking you as well, just out of fairness.”
I do disagree with Owneratinfinity. If you look at projected population statistics there will be more than enough people living downtown to fill up 50% of the condos. Now that’s not to say that may one or two luxury condos might be filled with 50% of people who use it as a second home, but not the whole of downtown. But again it’s besides the point. I don’t care if people buy 90% of the condos as second homes. I’m not arguing with you about how many people live in the condos full time or not. I’m arguing that there will not be a second “Armageddon” as you put it. More than likely prices will be flat and the rises slowly.
“And here again, one of my detractors actually bolsters my point. Why, dear Gixxer, would any company bring good, well-paying jobs to an area featuring a workforce such as the one you described? Obviously, they wouldn’t, and they don’t. That’s been my point all along.”
Law firms for example have been moving here because office space is cheaper. But again this is besides the point. I really don’t care about the workforce. I could care less if they bring new jobs to Miami or not. I’m not arguing about the number of new jobs. I’m arguing that if you are qualified you can find a job here. I don’t care if that means some lazy guy gets fired to hire me. Again I’m responding to the comment that you can’t come to Miami and find well paying work. No where in this argument does it matter if there are new jobs. Regardless of whether or not they bring new jobs there has to be lawyers, bankers, doctors, engineers, etc to service the 2.5 million people in the area. If they hire me as a UM graduate and fire some guy with an online degree I really don’t care.
“As for your rosy employment numbers for Miami, you might want to take a tour of all the shuttered financial services and banking outlets in and around downtown Miami. You might also want to take a look at the glut of commercial real estate space, which will be the Miami r.e. market’s next armageddon.”
I tour them and have friends that work in them every single day. Maybe the next time you come back to Miami you might want to take a second look.
Joe,
“Just so we’re clear, I haven’t been trying to discourage you from moving to Miami.”
That’s funny, because from what I can tell from what AA has posted so far he/she is not self employed and/or financially secure.
Therefore when you make this statement:
“Coming to Miami self-employed and/or financially secure? Miami is paradise.
Coming to Miami in search of well-paying work? Miami will probably eat you alive.”
You are basically saying that IF AA is not self-employed (which he/she is not, obviously since he/she is looking for a job) and not financially secure (again obviously not since he/she is looking for a job) then Miami will probably eat him/her alive.
Then you turn around and say you are not discouraging him/her from moving to Miami?
How is telling someone looking for a job in Miami that they will getting eaten alive not discouraging them from looking for a job here?????
AA — No, please do. I, for one, would be curious how you make out.
Just so we’re clear, I haven’t been trying to discourage you from moving to Miami. You might have skills that are needed in MIA, in a sector that doesn’t require Spanish fluency. I just felt compelled to comment, because some others on this board show a lot of “irrational exuberance” when it comes to all things Miami.
As I’ve been saying for years, and as even “owneratinfinity” admitted yesterday (if only by mistake), if Miami was chock full of well-paying jobs, it wouldn’t be taking years to sell off 22,000 condos in a county of 2,500,000 people.
Good luck!
Thanks for the encouragement Joe. And I didn’t mean to start an argument here, but know that this is a place for spirited debate and figured my question may get a discussion going that may prove to be helpful.
To be clear, I am NOT self employed, although I hope to one day be. I have worked in sales and more recently (last 4 years) financial services in NYC for the past 8 years. My job here is secure, and I do have some savings although retirement at 30 is certainly not an option. My desire to move to Miami is not one of necessity, but rather I enjoy the city and have always toyed with the idea of moving there, and figured that when my lease is up here in January, it may be time to move on. Job prospects EVERYWHERE are slim right now, hence the alternative methods of gaining insight on the local markets. Thanks again for everyone that contributed something helpful, and I will keep all interested updated on my progress.
Gixxer 1000 — Good grief, you’re a moron sometimes (or, in your English, “your a moron”).
My discussion above is a GENERALIZATION. Do you know what that means?
How or why would I discourage AA from moving somewhere when I know almost nothing about his work skills, finances, etc.? It makes no sense.
As for your claim that “you couldn’t care less” if new jobs come to Miami, that’s a breathtakingly stupid comment. Aren’t you some sort of urban planner? Who needs urban planning if there’s no growth, just turnover?