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Lucas, let me be the first to say nice picture of the fuse boxes. There sure are a lot of them.
In all honesty, I really do appreciate the photos of this unit. They don’t usually make 8000 sq ft condos.
Hey Lucas,
What is going on over at Icon Brickell, did they have a sale??? 200 sq/ft?????
Great views and size but looks like an awkward layout. No terrace off of main living area….not good for entertaining. I am sure rooftop and lower terraces are nice, but much nicer to open sliders in living area for a party on a cool night. Terrace on lower level is semi-private as there is a semi-transparent divider with condo next door….not cool for $8 Million. Also, the space seems very cut up with differing ceiling soffits and odd structural beams, and weird room shapes….not elegant space.
I found all of the layouts in Marquis to be very poor with wasted space, too many hallways, and small living areas. I think these problems in addition to pricing and market realities will doom this building. Its ashame because finish of common areas and quality of construction is top notch. The architects were not an asset for this project.
Excellent pictures.
Do you have any pictures of the common area pool? I’m wondering if the main pool areas will be big enough for the remainder of those units (people not fortunate enough to have their own private rooftop pool!)
Looks like great unit on an ultra high floor. Fun, but at a price. Oddly, why bother putting in a washer and dryer at this price point when new owners would maybe want to pick out their own….can’t be a code thing can it? The railings I understand, you can rip them out and give them to someone that lives 1800 Club since I’m sure they would love to have something this level of quality not found in their ghetto.
By the way, an interesting read…..
“Fed: Household Net Worth Off $12.2 Trillion From Peak”
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/09/fed-household-net-worth-off-122.html
That will have a big impact on large dollar items which includes real estate. The graphs are striking including the last one which shows how levered up households remain. The U.S. mortgage debt is over 60% of GDP (way way way up from the past norms) and household values jumped and have come way down (more to go) but the debt levels stay high….that has consequences…consequences that have NOT unfolded yet. And they aren’t positive consequences.
Is this unit a combination of two duplexes or was it initially designed with four levels? The design of the units in this building is inherently inefficient but that is the design compromise of giving all units a bay view.
Im going to have to pass on this unit. No Bidet in the bathroom pics – unless they are located on the next level which means an elevator ride away just to clean your rear end. Or as AJ recommends buying a squirt gun attachment from Thailand but OMG what were they thinking.
Kramer, you have an amazing sense of humor. Made me laugh! Great comment!
I would expect six months and an additional $200,000 to finish it. Not worth the time or trouble. You would have to be a bored widow to want to take on this project. In ten yours you will have spent an additional million in maintenance fees and taxes. Worst investment of the century.
Icon Brickell : I know a contractor that says they are finishing units in the Hotel-Residence side and they are going to open up the second tower soon. Seems strange but I know he has workers in the hotel finishing the units. One BIG rental building.
I inquired about renting at ICON Brickell and let me say what a joke. NO SHOWER DOORS FOR RENTERS. WIRE CLOSETS. CHEAP CARPET. INSANELY HIGH ASKING RENT PRICES. They are trying to lower rent without lowering it (ie 1 month free rent). That way they can claim someone is paying 1600 for a studio when in reality they’re paying 1450.
Also, I have to say, they layout is totally retarded in this place. What is up with those bathrooms?! Looks like something out of a 1500/month rental!
the
Lucas do you have the floor plan of the PH?
The one on the website does not match the layout of the pictures taken by you.
who cares are we buying this unit ?? whats the point ?? prices have come down so much right ???
wheres all the condo buying ???
Drew is partially correct. These units can’t be marketed as investments without being registered with the SEC as a security. You can, however, call a condo an “investment” if it has been registered as a security. You also can guarantee returns on investments if stated guarantee can be honored (i.e., you can’t guarantee that the DJIA will return 33% this year, but you can guarantee a 3% return on a 6 month CD). In TH’s case, if he and/or his company are promoting these units as investments, they must register them as such. And if he has the funds to guarantee the return on the registered units in case that the market doesn’t satisfy it, there should be no legal problem. The crux of the matter is whether TH has registered the units as securities and if he can and will honor the guaranteed rate of return.
Tibor Hollo obviously in bed with The Miami Herald. Someone tell me what is newsworthy in this story. It is written as if it should be included in the “Special Advertising Section” of the newspaper.
The article claims that Hollow will “guarantee a minimum 3% return” for his investors. Last time I checked, you can’t treat condo units as a security without licensing it as such and I highly doubt Hollo has done that. Advertising of condos as investments is considered securities fraud (see condo-hotel litigation/investigations). I am very surprised that Hollo’s group would allow the Herald to print that statement. ..any developer representations regarding condos as “investments” or guaranteeing profits is illegal.
Any plaintiffs’ lawyers or SEC regulators should take note of this proposed investment scheme being introduced by Hollo.
Lucas, I hope you don’t remove this post in fear of further backlash from the Hollo group, because not only is the Herald fluff piece a joke (where’s the news?), but they may be violating securities law that gives them an unfair advantage over other developers trying to unload units.
GT3, thanks for the clarification. Yes, I assumed above that the units had not in fact been registered and I doubt that they have been, though I could be wrong. You can run a filing search on sec.gov but without knowing the entity/registration name, it may be difficult to confirm whether they’ve been filed or not. I tried “Opera Tower, LLC” as that is the fee simple owner (I believe), but no hits come up.
Interesting development. Perhaps this is a potential indirect redemption for Lucas after being bullied by FL East Coast Realty a few years ago.
Keep waiting for the bottom….
http://www.reuters.com/article/ousivMolt/idUSTRE58G5U320090917
I THINK ITS TIME FOR ANOTHER DISCUSSION/THREAD DEVOTED ENTIRELY ON ICON BRICKELL. RUMORS, STORIES, SALES, NEWS??????
Interesting post from MarketWatch article….and this guy isn’t even in Florida which is worse. Got a long haul ahead of us…
Moody’s bearish on housing recovery
Analysts say it will take more than 10 years to recapture peak home prices
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/home-prices-wont-regain-peak-this-decade-moodys-2009-09-18
Blogger comment:
“I work for a bank, I’m a loan officer. This year we went from 580 minimum Fico for Government loans (VA/FHA) to 620, then to 640, soon to be 660. Appraisals now have to go through an HVCC system (on conventional loans) that are holding up closings, reducing values and costing buyers more. FHA just annouced today guideline changes that will essentially put most brokers out of business January 1st 2010, Taylor Bean & Whitaker, previously the 4th largest Ginnie Mae servicer and most lenient lender (privately held company) got taken over by the feds and shut down in July. The $8000.00 tax credit for 1st time homebuyers (which essentially became a way to go FHA with no down payment) ends October 31st. And….as mentioned above, FHA is going to either need a bailout themselves or they will dramatically increase the fees to do an FHA loan. The fed buy back of Treasuries and Mortgage backed securites ends the end of November (unless one or both programs are extended, we’ll probably know next fed meeting).
Folks, the bubble was all about giving a loan to anyone who had a pulse. That credit is long, long gone, and IMO getting harder to get. No more easy money. 49% of the USA has a credit score below 669. I am guessing (based on actual sales experience this year) that a good 1/3 of all people who could buy a home two years ago are now toast. That doesn’t even include people who are now unemployed and without work or who just recently go re-employed (2 years work history now, no gaps for a house loan). The housing market has further to fall and will not bounce back to prior levels for a long, long time. Sorry everyone. Sorry.”
I live at Marina Blue and management sucks. They kick Flo-Rida out of Blue and let him move into Marina Blue. Nice job Castle Management! Thanks for thinking about your owners. Shit in Shit out!
i took a walk around paramount bay today. it’s hard to understand the sheer size of the project until you get up close. it is huge. it looks nice but…it looks peculiar once you consider the surrounding neighborhood. whoever buys that note…well, damn.
OK, now THIS is bearish…(Florida is an “After 2014” state):
“On a regional basis, Moody’s said hard-hit states such as Florida and California will be among the last to recover and “will only regain their pre-bust peak in the early 2030s, well after the nation does.””
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/home-prices-wont-regain-peak-this-decade-moodys-2009-09-18
This coming Monday’s issue of Barron’s contains an interesting article titled “Miami Condos: No Bottom in Sight”. I wish I could attach it as an attachment but don’t know how. In any case, the article’s bottom line: bottom fishers need to wait another couple of years – at least.
It looks like we have a new “Joe” here. Just for the record, I’m the Joe who has posted here for the past few months. The Joe in #23 who says he lives in Marina Blue is a different guy. (I’ve been very, and remain, very bearish on downtown Miami. I didn’t want anyone to think I’ve been lying.)
Samson — The actual article title is “Florida Condos: No Bottom in Sight.” The article is on the main page at Barrons.com right now, but I’m not a subscriber. If someone could cut-and-paste it here, or at least the Miami-related parts, I’m sure we’d all appreciate it.
Joe: Thanks, I stand corrected as to the title. I am a subscriber to Barrons and just emailed the story to Lucas to see if he could post it on this blog. Or I’ll email it to whatever address you can give me.
Try this link
http://online.barrons.com/article/SB125332156157424659.html?mod=BOLFeed
if it does not work google for article’s title
Well, I can’t seem to post that article. But if you go online at Barrons, just email it to yourself…then you can view the whole article.
“Homeowners who ‘strategically default’ on loans a growing problem”
http://www.latimes.com/classified/realestate/news/la-fi-harney20-2009sep20,0,2560658.story
* Strategic defaulters often go straight from perfect payment histories to no mortgage payments at all. This is in stark contrast with most financially distressed borrowers, who try to keep paying on their mortgage even after they’ve fallen behind on other accounts.
* Strategic defaults are heavily concentrated in negative-equity markets where home values zoomed during the boom and have cratered since 2006. In California last year, the number of strategic defaults was 68 times higher than it was in 2005. In Florida it was 46 times higher. In most other parts of the country, defaults were about nine times higher in 2008 than in 2005.
“Strategic defaulter”? We need to bring back some public shame… how about irresponsible wanker?
Computer consultant: Excellent work. I wish I could’ve done that.
renter tom, these are always positive human beings, your just using facts………facts have no place in real estate, miami real estate in particular….
everyone knows what is going to happen but they must be positive, because they have skin in the game and they cant admit that prices are going lower……….the banks are with holding how many foreclosures from the books ???
whats the percentage of people that purchased in the last 3 years that will be under water ?
anyway ……keep giving them facts!!!!!!!
RENTER TOM….I saw a post where you were talking about ARTECH in Aventura.Do you know anything at all about that project??
I heard that the big agent on Miami Beach Kevin Tomlinson was leaving his company and starting his own company
So many construction defects. The parking structure and ramp are so ill conceived it’s ridiculous. Security looks like mall cops compared to the stylish 900 suited guards. Gym closes at 10 pm sharp (why?!) Elevators are always dirty. Markings on walls. Filled with euro-trash. ETC
Should I buy or Should I wait??????HELP
Johnny Dollar – I knew two people that moved to ARTECH in Adventura (as renters) and loved the place. But then again, they were going in as renters…..owning there, I have no idea. Owning really comes down to price, price, price…..
Post #38. I could not agree with you more. I took a long hard look at Marina Blue but ultimately decided against it for the various reasons you cited in your post. I ended up at 900 and could not be happier.
Ehhh, just saw the Marquis pool decks. Horrible enclosed design and very small. High quality, just very poor layout and design.
What is worse than owning a $500K condo that you don’t live in and can’t rent at a cash flow positive price? How about a multimillion dollar home that just won’t sell for years….
“There is a pipeline of multimillion-dollar properties that are underwater,” says Graham. “In most of these areas the homes aren’t selling. There’s a multiyear supply.”
Luxury real estate vultures
A Fortress Investment veteran is now at an auction house that hopes to feed off of distressed estates.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/15/real_estate/luxury_real_estate_vultures.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2009091809
Seriously I think they did a terrible job for this penthouse…
– No balcony in the living room.. no view to the south and west…
– Semi private balcony on the first floor…
Come on…
Could there ever be a unit that people would not talk bad about?
Ok Juan sure, let’s be objective then. Fantastic Penthouse… 8 millions. U have no balcony in the living room… no big deal… No view West and South…. who cares? By the way. Kitchen is in the living room. What about the smell from the cooking if you cannot open the windows?
Juan here is a positives and a negatives.
Positive – this area isn’t Detroit:
http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/21/news/economy/detroit_plan/index.htm
Negative: “Florida apartment values tumbled 40 percent in a year, the report said.”
Where is the $8 million figure coming from?
enzo
uhh…why would you want a view to the south (TMP) or west (hialeah)? i think the developer made the right choice
Jcrimes. Well a view to the south would be great i think. Especially at night. The penthouse is above tmp, 900 BISCAYNE and marina blue, so you would have an awesome view of down town and key biscayne. As for the west, you would have a gorgous sunset and overall have a 360 view of Miami
Who says short sales don’t work. I just got approved for a short sale at an oceanfront unit at SIB! RT, I’ll be your neighbor! By the way do you know of any competent and reliable interior designers?
Nice job here Lucas – http://cbs4.com/local/housing.home.south.2.1197853.html
South views suck. For 12 straight hours in the winter, the sun will be bearing down your condo like a spot light.
South and West Views
Ummm scroll down to the 9th photo. Thats a west and a north view. Just sayin.
George – Congrats! Is it under contract or closed yet? If so, what building did you go for? There are deals out there especially some of the ones on the West side of Collins. But being directly on the beach is nice.
It is under contract, will close in a couple of weeks. As soon as I close I will tell you details, I don’t want to jinx it! Than we can have some drinks overlooking the ocean.
enzo
as for the south view, maybe. however, i used to have a view to the west in my old place. was overrated. but then again, i didn’t have an 8,000 sq ft penthouse.
George – On the beach or west of Collins? Newer building or older? Just curious. I have seen short sales in all of the above and was tracking one but gave up since was fishy.
Having no balcony off the living room really is sort of baffling/inexplicable. The more I see of the high-end units in Miami, the more I’m astonished at how many horrible layouts got built. It’s almost like they started building these towers and the design of the actual units was an afterthought.
This one has no balcony off the main living area; the last unit had a layout that was like a maze; and then there was that lofts building with the tubs in the middle of the room. Amazingly poor design in any market, let alone a high-end, big-money market like So. Fla.
Re: RT: Newer building on the beach. I’ve been doing extensive research for the last couple of years, first in areas in Miami, than in buildings and than in lines as to the best value relative to quality and location. I think I got a preety good combination .
They closed at least one more at ICON:
“Jennifer Lopez and Marc Anthony Buy At The Icon Brickell”………………….
Does anybody know anything about the Caribbean on MB? Building looks amazing and they seem to be coming down to earth on their pricing.
One last desperation heave for ICON? Developers are known to give huge sweetheart deals to celebrities. I would love to see the contract for any buy-back guarantees and pricing. I did not think that ICON had any true penthouse units, or even private elevator foyers, so this seems a little fishy. Sounds like a marketing ploy.
I thought Jlo and MarcAnt got the Penthouse in Icon South Beach a couple months ago.
George – Good to hear. Curious what price range per s.f. you pulled the trigger on??? I have been watching another unit but of course it comes down to price (once I have determined the unit). Basically, with marble floors and etc. finished, decorated would hit about $400/s.f. with fantastic views….but still waiting.
Unbelievable video of people scurrying like rats….and the son, what a lard arse bunch of BS. He should spend a few nights in prison for that. I’ve never seen anything like it….looks like a bunch of crooks with the whole family involved.
Re: RT: I got it @ $300/s.f which is quite good for a new oceanfront with marble floors, etc. Similar units go for 20%+ higher. Any idea of a good interior designer?
George – Sounds like a good price. Depends on floor and view if direct ocean view, etc. Regardless, newer building on the beach for $300/s.f. is a good deal esp with marble floors already included. I don’t know a good interior designer but will probably need one once I buy…..will go the contemporary Miami design look when I do.
Is South Florida really that corrupt??? Watch the video (someone got caught)….
Joe- As someone with an architecture background, let’s just say when the market was hot certain architecture firms (cough cough co cough be crap) had double shifts going, meaning a 9-4 and 4-11pm+ for example…times were crazed back then, unlike now, when architects can barely rub two pennies together…so yes, I’m not surprised some designs were “crap.” even high-end.
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