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I know Apogee is nice, but that photo makes it look like a housing project.
Lucas, you need to toss the 3 megapixel camera and buy a new one.
I dunno if it is that the picture quality is bad or that Lucas is downgrading a megabyte pic into kilobyte size for easy downloading. But in any case the pictures quality is awful, and the most beautiful place on Earth ended up looking like Tijuana. Instead may I suggest to put the pics on Picasa or Shutterfly and provide the link? It is not exciting to read a story piece with out pics but this is a problem here and is there an alternative? But critisism apart, A+ for effort. Thanks.
Anyway this is the NYT story on SOFI:
IT was a sunny Monday afternoon, and the scene around the yellow-and-orange cabanas at La Piaggia Beach Club was laid-back and effortlessly chic. Waiters brought trays of chilled rosé, goose pâté and “les mini cheeseburgers.” Women, wearing cunning coverups that manage to cover up nothing, dipped their manicured feet into the sand.
A few attractive young bodies were leisurely sunning near the saltwater pool, but nobody was in the pool itself. It was just for show, as was the plaque on the weathered wooden front door falsely stating that the club was “members only.” With the blue waters and swaying palms, the scene at La Piaggia could almost be mistaken for St. Barts or Mustique. Except, of course, for the surrounding sea wall of beachfront condos that screamed Miami.
In recent years, the triangular district at the tip of South Beach has emerged as a chic yet relaxed alternative to the typical Ocean Drive frenzy farther north. It even has a hip moniker, SoFi, which stands for South of Fifth Street — the four-lane thoroughfare that cleaves the neighborhood from the rest of the area.
North of Fifth Street, club kids work off their hangovers at Ocean Drive madhouses like News Cafe, bachelorettes prowl for gallon-size frozen margaritas (with four straws) and busloads of tourists search for the Versace mansion. All the while, menu-wielding hostesses canvass passersby with two-for-one drink specials.
In contrast, the area south of Fifth almost feels like a gated resort — though, in reality, anyone can waltz in. More European than Daytona Beach-at-spring-break, the SoFi scene skews a little older, a little more arrived than arriviste, cushioned by the base of wealthy second-home owners from the area’s gleaming condos.
And just as downtown Manhattanites joke that they get nosebleeds north of 14th Street, SoFi residents have taken to saying that there is no reason to go above Fifth to socialize anymore.
For brunch-time gossip, locals pull up to Big Pink, a nouveau diner that functions like a general store. At sunset, Smith & Wollensky or Monty’s South Beach are the big draws, particularly on Fridays, to watch the looming cruise ships slowly move out to sea. If the wind is blowing in the right direction, strains of “Y.M.C.A.” or Bob Marley can be heard.
And for a crazier party atmosphere, there is the splashy Nikki Beach Club, where bronze bodies lounge on daybeds under private canopies, bottles of Piper-Heidsieck chill in ice buckets, and young women in turquoise Pocahontas-fringed bikinis dance to entertain guests.
While the beauty of South Beach is often obscured by the partying, SoFi denizens also make the most of this picturesque barrier island. Every day at 7 a.m. and 6 p.m., yogis meet for mixed-level classes at the pink lifeguard stand at the Third Street Beach, mastering their downward dogs in the ocean breezes while following the trajectory of the sun.
More yogis can be found at South Pointe Park, a 17.5-acre esplanade that reopened on the island’s southern tip in March after a $22 million renovation. During the day, the park is filled with young families, bikers and dog walkers — all enjoying the dune grass blowing in the breeze, wildflowers sprouting and waves lapping on the shore. At night, 18 light towers glow in different colors, illuminating an area that was once a scary needle park.
SoFi rose from the ashes of urban decay. For decades, it was a dangerous no man’s land — the only destination worth visiting probably was the venerable Joe’s Stone Crab, where diners ate secure in the knowledge that valets guarded their shiny Cadillacs.
Then, starting in the mid-1990s, as the revival of South Beach attracted developers to the natural beauty of the point, towering condos with multimillion-dollar apartments began to appear. Restaurants and other businesses trickled back in.
Among the pioneers was Myles Chefetz, who opened Nemo, a trendy spot with an outdoor courtyard, in 1995. “There were no signs of life,” said Mr. Chefetz, who now runs numerous restaurants and other hotspots in SoFi, and is known as the Sultan of South Fifth. “Nemo is in a former bum-laden crack hotel where they used to film ‘Miami Vice.’ ”
Hotels soon followed. Today, top-notch accommodations include a beachfront Marriott and the all-suite Hilton Bentley Miami/South Beach. They are joined this month by the Sense South Beach, a luxury boutique hotel with 18 rooms and a rooftop pool.
More hotels are on their way. In August, Mr. Chefetz is opening the Prime Hotel, a modern 14-unit resort next to Brown’s Hotel. Opening rates are set at $300 a night.
Not that SoFi is sleepy the rest of year; the demand for a happening scene is a Miami imperative. On a warm Thursday evening in late April, a crush of leggy patrons in miniskirts and high heels and their older boyfriends converged at the outdoor tables at Prime Italian, an offshoot of Prime One Twelve, the stylish steakhouse in Brown’s Hotel. (Both are owned by Mr. Chefetz.)
Prime Italian, with its clubby macho décor, is a restaurant conceived to separate pro athletes from their money via a culinary invention called Kobe meatballs. A crowd of overdressed and underdressed clamored for tables near the bar, where, recently, the N.B.A. star Antoine Walker sat watching a Celtics-Bulls playoff game. The scene prompted one visitor to tag it as Bentleyville in honor of the gridlock of $300,000 cars.
Yes, it may be SoFi. But it’s still South Beach.
And here is the full Link:
http://travel.nytimes.com/2009/05/31/travel/31next.html?hpw
South of Fifth is the most over hyped area in Miami. It’s a crack hole compared to Coral Gables.
Wild Bill you are a hoot. Our resident optimist. LOL!
So true Wild Bill. BTW Riff Raf=AJ
I wonder why the newyourktimes disk’ t do a story on pacepark an the bodies of it’s glistening bronzed hobos?
IRR = Ignorance Running Rampant
Check out some of the inhabitants of pace park http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccgXjA2BLEY&feature=related. Bubb rubb and lil sis
South Beach is all about train horns. Not so sure about muffler whistles. Nothing beats a vehicle with an air compressor and a train horn.
South of Fifth residents claim the Browns Hotel is not a hotel and La Piaggia Beach Club isn’t private. South of Fifth has awful quality of life issues which is why they have such a vocal community association. People in nice areas usually don’t have to deal with half the crap Miami Beach residents have to. As always government is one step behind. Enjoy your million dollar condos in a dollar store neighborhood.
http://www.spotcrime.com/fl/miami
And now for a completely different type of diversion…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXd6sZXo7nM&NR=1
“For brunch-time gossip, locals pull up to Big Pink, a nouveau diner that functions like a general store. ”
You always get surreal quips like this when an out of towner tries to concoct an article without even visiting the city in question.
IRR = Intentionally radical renter
i love coral gables!!!! now your talking
The Browns Hotel only has 9 rooms. I wouldn’t exactly call it a hotel either. Its just a mask for a hotel so they could put Prime 112 in the small building. Sneaky, but genius, lawyers.
La Piaggia…private? lol No membership needed. No way would I ever pay a membership to hang out over there in a tiny pool with sand. As long as you are buying some drinks, you’re in.
This is only tangentially related to SoFi, but can anyone explain how this year’s Miami tax assessments only dropped 9% when Miami housing prices have dropped by 30 to 40%?
Joe, this city’s more corrupt than the mafia. They’ll probably just raise the millage rate to a point where taxes actually go up even though assessments go down.
Joe,
Many of the homeowners did not pay full taxes on the appreciated prices from 2000-2007, since we have homestead exemptions. Thus the drops in prices also do not result in the same significant decreases, since in 2009 the homeowner may have only been paying 2003 prices, due to caps on yearly increases. Those who purchased at the peak are in a different boat, but they do not make up the majority of home owners.
I saw The Ace on Fox Happy Hour a week or so back and he specifically mentioned one or more of these buildings would be valued down to $125.00 per square foot or less in the not to distant future. Personally I’m done arguing with Ace as the economic data today cannot support any other view. The amazing thing is that The Ace called it some three years ago if I recall rightly.
One of these SoFi buildings at $125/s.f.? Wouldn’t that require about a further 70% drop from today’s prices? I don’t know much about South Pointe Tower or Portofino Tower, but the others seem to be selling for $700 or more per sq. foot right now.
Joe,
These buildings will never drop to that value. They will never even reach $300/sf, at which point i would certainly jump in with both feet. Other beach condos may fall, but SoFi will not-the neighborhood is good, safe and will maintain value for years to come. This neighborhood has the advantage of only needing to resist creep from undesirable areas from the north only, which will make it easier to maintain a more upscale neighborhood. The buildings are magnificent, and the money living in them is great enough to maintain the building and the area. No significant fears of lack of building maintenance in this area. Cant say the same about other miami areas-Brickell, Pace Park, etc.
No way will they see anywhere near $125. That is just stupid. Most of these buildings are small (from a number of unit standpoint). Its not like they are 1800-unit Icon Brickell buildings.
In fact, I doubt all the towers in SoFi even add up to 1,800 units. Plus, you can’t build anymore high rise buildings in SoFi. What you see now is it forever.
There will be no moratorium on SoFi highrises. Plenty will appear over the next couple of decades. There is land, especially inland, which will support the construction of several high rises, in the SoFi area. You cannot stop development and expansion, especially in Miami, where the developers will provide larger bribes than the preservationists. Just a fact of Miami politics. Plenty of parking lots in the area will be turned into something much larger-and i think that is a good thing. Make the area a true community.
To proffer that any of these ocean front luxury buildings will fall to $125/sq. foot is beyond stupid.
Gables, you will never see another high rise in SoFi. The zoning will not allow anything above 50 feet inland. Some areas its 35 feet. Changing zoning to allow a big tower would have zero chance. Just ask the developers of Bijou who just wanted to put a restaurant/bar in their tiny 3 story hotel. You can’t get past the planning board, the historic board, the mayor, the commissioners, and the neighborhood associations.
Maybe if all the criminals and dipsits running our local govenment had had the foresight and financial common-sense not to squander their windfall boom-era revenues and set aside aqequte reserves for when the party inevitably ended, we wouldn’t be in this situation….
Miami-Dade property tax funds drop; cuts likely
The worst decline in property taxes in at least four decades will leave elected officials with the uncomfortable task of closing massive projected budget deficits.
BY MATTHEW HAGGMAN AND CHARLES RABIN
[email protected]
Miami-Dade County property tax values nose-dived 9 percent during the past year, making it the worst year-over-year decline in at least 40 years, according to figures released Monday by the county property appraiser’s office.
The steep decline will mean county and city leaders will be forced to raise property taxes, cut government services or a combination of the two to make up for a staggering drop in revenues.
”These losses in property tax roll values are unprecedented,” County Manager George Burgess wrote in a memo to commissioners Monday, who pegged the estimated overall county budget shortfall between $350 million and $400 million for the coming fiscal year.
This year’s drop marks the first time Miami-Dade’s taxable values dropped since 1993, when assessments dipped 2.9 percent after Hurricane Andrew wiped out wide swaths of South Florida, according to the county appraiser’s office. A year ago, values were essentially flat, despite voter-approved tax reductions and a rapidly faltering housing market.
The announcement from the Miami-Dade Property Appraiser’s Office comes less than a week after Broward’s property appraiser said taxable values there dropped 10.7 percent.
DIFFERENT STANDARDS
The two counties used different standards in making their calculations. Miami-Dade included short sales (in which a lender allows a property to be sold for less than owed on a mortgage) but not foreclosures in its assessment; Broward included short sales and foreclosed properties listed for sale on the open market.
Broward appraiser Lori Parrish contends foreclosed homes sold on the widely used Multiple Listing Service amount to an arms-length transaction that reflect current market conditions.
The net result is that ”Miami-Dade’s tax base would have dropped more if it adopted Broward’s approach, though it’s a marginal difference,” said John Blazejack, president of Blazejack & Co., a property appraisal firm in Miami.
South Florida real estate prices have been pummeled since the housing boom turned bust and record foreclosures rippled across the region. The home market troubles have metastasized into a broader economic recession that’s pushed the South Florida jobless rate from 4.8 percent a year ago to 8.5 percent today.
The report issued Monday includes preliminary property tax assessments for the county, 35 cities, unincorporated areas and public entities that take a cut of property taxes, like Miami-Dade School Board and South Florida Water Management District.
The numbers will be certified next month, and local governments typically approve new fiscal year budgets in September.
It’s the first tax roll estimate issued by Miami-Dade Property Appraiser Pedro J. Garcia, who in December won the first election for county appraiser. Previously, the position was appointed.
The biggest losers include the city of North Bay Village, which saw its property tax base drop 20 percent and Homestead, dropping 18 percent.
TROUBLE IN EL PORTAL
El Portal Town Manager Jason Walker said he was actually relieved to see the village’s tax base erode by only 14.8 percent. Walker said he was hearing a loss in revenue of up to 35 percent.
Still, Walker said he may have to cut two positions from his eight-man police force. Also gone could be some staffers, tree trimmings and holiday events.
Walker said there’s a way to avoid that, however: He’s managed to build up the village’s reserves to almost $1 million.
”Theoretically the council can dip into the reserves to cover the shortfall,” Walker said. “But there will be no raises next year and no raising of taxes.”
Cutler Bay Village Manager Steve Alexander said he had already prepared a budget with 15 percent worth of cuts that he’s likely to forward to his council.
The good news, said Alexander, ”is we’re a young city, so we don’t have a whole lot of programs established.” The bad news, “we run a tight program, so we don’t have a lot of places to cut.”
CITY OF MIAMI
The city of Miami is facing a smaller tax roll drop of 6.6 percent. Miami City Manager Pete Hernandez said the revenue decline means as much as a $15 million loss. Miami already has a hiring freeze in place and is looking at a tough budget year.
But Hernandez also said after speaking with Chief Financial Officer Larry Spring, that more new construction attached to the final appraisals next month could lower the city’s revenue loss.
Nonetheless, Hernandez said Miami is looking at taking, “more aggressive actions than in past years.”
By that Hernandez meant the possible consolidation of departments or functions. He said everything will be on the table: increasing solid waste or building permit fees, and possibly layoffs.
”Obviously, that’s one of the things I’d like to avoid,” said the manager.
County-wide, the property tax base is estimated to drop from $246 billion a year ago to $223 billion this year.
The news comes at a time when county commissioners have come under criticism for lavish use of taxpayer dollars for their own benefit during an ongoing economic recession.
In March, Chairman Dennis Moss issued a memo seeking an end to commissioners’ use of county sergeants-at-arms as their ”personal chauffeurs” at taxpayer expense. Commissioners have also allotted themselves millions to give away at their own discretion, including self-promoting events.
Miami-Dade Commissioner Carlos Gimenez said they should consider eliminating commissioners’ discretionary funds, among a host of possible cuts. He also said that property taxes should not be raised.
”Everyone is hurting and for us to take money out of people’s pockets now is not a good thing,” said Gimenez.
But County Mayor Carlos Alvarez did not rule out a tax increase, saying that ”all options are on the table.” In a statement, the mayor pledged not to put forward a “politically safe budget that is detrimental or irresponsible to this community.”
”I live here, too,” he said.
Anyone have data of the County property tax income from say years 2000 until 2009?
Even though its down this year, I would love to see how much it rose during the boom years. The county website was no help.
southbeachsand,
Zoning, commissioners, etc will not stand in the way of progress in the long term. Governments need residents, and in particular real estate, to increase their tax base and revenue for spending. the only option SoFi and other Miami Beach areas have is to increase the number of high rises, since they cannot expand into undeveloped land-it does not exist. As the value of the inland areas increase in price, owners and developers will circumvent the existing roadblocks-they have very good imaginations and creative processes. This will be inevitable, just give it some time. Miami Beach and SoFi does not really have the heritage or historical importance to maintain existing structures at the expense of new structures, such as in the French Quarter of New Orleans or similar historical neighborhoods. In 50 years SoFi will be nothing but high rises, unless rising sea levels turn the area underwater first. With existing high rises already in the area, it will be difficult to keep others out. The floodgates have already been opened.
gables — But who would want to buy a unit in an inland SoFi high-rise, when the “view” would be little more than the sides of the beachfront buildings? I could see developers doing battle to build a high-rise where Nikki Beach is located, or something like that, but building inland makes little sense to me.
“These losses in property tax roll values are unprecedented,” County Manager George Burgess wrote in a memo to commissioners Monday …
— And the *increases* in property tax roll values from 2000 to 2007 were unprecedented, too. Good grief. Is it a local law that only people with IQs under 75 can hold positions of responsibility in Miami?
SoFi is great, and will remain so for years to come, but as others have said, there won’t be anymore high-rise construction in Miami Beach, that’s it. And I think that’s great. South Beach’s charm comes from its historic mid-rises and smaller scale development.
Brickell and Downtown on the other hand, is where high-rises in Miami-Dade will be focused on (along with Aventura and Sunny Isles Beach). Brickell is extremely popular, and people will pay a lot of money to live with a Brickell address. Not to mention, Brickell and Downtown offer people an urban lifestyle and convenience to work and shopping.
Pace Park, Midtown, Wynwood, Design District, will fare a little different. They’ll go through rough patches, but these neighborhoods along with the Upper East Side, are growing to become rejuvenated mid-rise neighborhoods that will be equally popular.
South of Fifth has a ton of speculators. Many of these people have already lost 50% of their money on units bought at peak prices. I’ve listed a few on previous posts. Several units on Alton Road have dropped $500,000.
The Herald is now mentioning how people are buying foreclosures. Only they forgot to mention is that some of these projects have Chinese drywall. Round two of foreclosures will set in as people will have to gut and redo these units. I’m convinced everybody in real estate has selective amnesia.
I agree with Brody. Also I am starting to be involved in foreclosure bidding wars and until you personaly experience it you do not know what is involved. If priced right every apartment is getting somewhere around 10 offers so initial price does not mean a thing. those who have cash bid and prices go up from 25K to 50K. I am talking about apartments in the range between $140,000- $200,000 in the buildings where people cannot get financing even if they are approved. It is like a gold rush. I cannot predict the future but this is what’s going on.
Also I see some movement in short sales though it takes more time. It is either going somewhere or not going at all. But at least some short sale deals are happening. The factor here is comps. If you cannot show them comps in a particular building then it is becoming more difficult to buy.
Gables,
I assume you also know that in Miami Beach, it requires a public referendum vote to upzone a property to increased density?
Miami Beach residents will never go to the poll to vote for a big tower. If a building is not approved as of today, then it has to go to a ballot (to increase zoning density).
Thats after the planning board, the commissioners, the mayor, the associations, etc…
This all recently passed.
Just got an update….could possibly be getting word on my short sale within 1-2 weeks. Hopefully that’s accurate, I’m getting sick of waiting.
I have found very few areas around this great country where zoning rules (and other similar impediments) could not be overcome with the right amount of money, pressure and time. This will happen in SoFi. The location will demand this occur.
Joe, inland SoFi property not in demand? Think about this situation. You are within walking distance of one of the most popular beaches on the planet, you have direct and easy access to Miami mainland and connecting highways, plenty of unused (or under utilized) land, and construction costs will be comparatively lower over the next decade or so. There will be enormous pressure to build and live in the SoFi area. If you were to choose a non oceanfront place to live, would you prefer two streets off the ocean in Brickell or SoFi?
The small boutiques, unless with legitimate historical significance, will become priced out of existence. Property and insurance taxes make it very hard to remain economically viable when you are a small building in an area of rising property values. This will inevitably happen in SoFi. You may not get 50 story highrises, but the economies of 20+ stories will force a change in density in the area.
I still disagree. Unless the current residents of SoFi sell their units and a bunch of apathetic people move in, I can’t envision any scenario in which 20-story or 50-story buildings will be built in SoFi.
The current residents went berserk when the music was a little too loud at Opium Garden or that other place. I don’t see them rolling over for years’ worth of construction. (And remember, a lot of the people in SoFi, if not an outright majority, are very monied outsiders who aren’t going to get rolled by a couple local politicians and their developer buddies.)
Joe, remember you vote only if a resident (not just an owner who lives there part time). In essence, the renters have more say over an area than owners, in many cases. Suffice it to say, as the rental population increases, the zoning dynamics also can change. A single highrise (not including Apogee and similar ultra buildings) can significantly change the voting preference of an area. Renters can be easily bought in the vote.
So you really think a private developer will win a public vote by the residents of Miami Beach to build condo tower in south of fifth? That is the only way permissible. A public majority vote. lol No single chance ever.
Even Jorge Perez had to limit his proposed Viceroy hotel across from Nikki Beach to 5 stories. He’s got more money and clout than anyone in south florida. He built half the towers in sofi.
No chance you get around that public vote.
According to a report this week from Forbes.com, Miami once again tops a “bad” list…this time as the #1 city in America for credit card debt per capita.
1. Miami, Fla.
(Miami-Miami Beach-Kendall, Fla.)
Average Credit Card Debt Per Household: $9,797.38
Median Household Income: $43,333
Percent of Income Owed To Credit Card Companies: 22.61%
2. Tampa, Fla.
(Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, Fla.)
Average Credit Card Debt Per Household: $7,685.88
Median Household Income: $44,944
Percent of Income Owed To Credit Card Companies: 17.10%
3. Los Angeles, Calif.
(Los Angeles-Long Beach-Glendale, Calif.)
Average Credit Card Debt Per Household: $8,815.86
Median Household Income: $52,456
Percent of Income Owed To Credit Card Companies: 16.81%
Miami Beach is one major hurricane and storm surge away from MAJOR redevelopment, overriding the so called zoning laws. Not a question of if, but when. During the chaos in the following years of such an event, a multitude of “not a snowballs chance” items will occur.
Anna,
That confirms my belief. Miamians to a large extent live a showy and flashy life paid for by the credit cards. I think even good and responsible people from elsewhere fall into this rut when they move in here and get peer pressured into a spending lifestyle.
I don’t know if to blame Miamians or the city itself for being a bad influence on spending attitudes. I have never seen so many prissy bitches and crochety bastards than I encountered in Miami.
Just to illustrate the point, in my building, they sent all the lobby curtains to the laundry at a price of $2500 because one of them was slighly stained at the bottom. They came back gorgeous but some thought that the colour turned one shade darker! I could not tell the difference at all. They looked great to me. So they are sending it back again for an entire redo which involves massive rigging of gear to take em down and put em back up after the rewash (they are not paying for the rewash though).
In any other city in America this would have been unthinkable. Probably the only city in America where someone ridicules grout lines in tiling and having a combined bath and shower.
With such miserable attitudes and propensity to spend till bankruptcy makes this city what it is. God help these nitwits who can’t help themselves become so shallow and materialistic on account of living here. Serves them right.
One silly coot thinks that I like to walk because I do not want to pay for a cab. Thank god, I do not get influenced by idiots like that and change my lifestyle. I do not want to end up like one of these broke arse mofos.
oh and BTW, when I visit SOBE and my friends ask me “how did you get here”, I tell them proudly “I took the bus and paid $2”. Some of them are actually envious that I have no hang ups to portray something which I am not.
I have 5 cars in NY and I will be bringing 3 of them when I move to Miami. But save for that once a week trip to Costco, My cars will probably lie garaged and I will be walking or biking everywhere.
In 15 years, all the SoFi condos will be looking ghetto and outdated. That’s why condos make bad long-term investments.
gables — So you think the aftermath of a disastrous hurricane will be the time people decide *increased* density in SoFi is a good idea? That seems like a stretch.
True luxury buildings 500/sf. Luxury but dumb concept $300. old buildings (mirador) go back to ore bubble prices
An interesting review of government action to the private citizen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbGkxcY7YFU
Whatever the zoning laws or idiocy of the elected officials of the County, you still can’t clear a market at $500 a sq ft where a 1400 sq ft residence will cost you nearly $30,0000 a year in taxes and HOA to run (before you’ve paid a single bill). I am stunned still how this absurdity isn’t ridiculed in this forum more rather than some arbitrary per sq ft measure.
I’m a cash buyer in the mkt for the Miami Beach/SoFi condos you are discussing but am not foolish enough to burn money for the sake of it – certainly not as a part-timer user – and the reality is the Beach is full of ‘us’.
If the downturn has not taught us that sometimes it is better to rent the experience than choke yourself with ongoing obligations, whether debt or quasi debt – why not just stay in the Ritz Carlton on South Beach a month a year instead. Because your costs are actually those of a hotel owning one of these condos.
If something is costing you 4-5% a year just to hold it, real cash out of your pocket year in year out (just think 10 years use $300,000. Say it again, $300,000. Before a single electricity bill), it can’t be contemplated as either an investment or a valuable experience.
Joe, after such an event you will have basically two options. One, the government will say this area is too dangerous and eliminate any recovery (see the gulf coast and New Orleans regarding this issue) or two, a rebuilding scenario will occur. If option one occurs, SoFi will be a few high rises surrounded by a ghetto in the interior. If option two occurs, the interior will be rebuilt, but not with 2 and 3 story structures-since the government will not allow much use out of the first floor due to flood elevation issues. Economics will dictate much larger structures will be needed to recoup costs, because land prices will still remain very high (remember this is land adjacent to the beach in a major metro area).
Increased density will occur in areas deemed desirable, and Miami Beach, including SoFi, fall in this category. From a resource perspective, running utilities and other necessities to one 50 story building is far cheaper than providing the same services to an equivalent number of houses spread out in the everglades. They wont build a 50 story building in the swamp, but they will build it on miami beach. Density in an urban core will continue into the future.
gables — You seem to be assuming an either/or proposition that leaves out the most obvious scenario: A hurricane hits SoFi, and then people rebuild per the existing zoning and regulations.
New Orleans is located below sea level, while SoFi/SoBe isn’t much (any?) different than a hundred other U.S. localities that have been whacked by hurricanes. Thus, your option #1 scenario — a ban on rebuilding — has a 0% chance of being implemented in SoFi.
As for scenario #2, of course it costs less to run utilities to one high-rise than it does 200 homes, but that’s a straw man argument. A hurricane doesn’t *create* demand for luxury housing from people that weren’t living in luxury housing before the hurricane hit.
If disaster strikes SoFi, I could see some of the 3- and 4-story buildings being replaced by 5- or 6-story buildings, but I can’t imagine people suddenly would give the green light to 30-story and 50-story buildings. It makes no sense, except to a small number of politicians and developers.
If Citizen’s insurance raises insurance premiums 10% each year for the next 5 years, you can expect HOA fees to probably rise what????? 25%??? Just to keep up with the insurance cost increases alone.
5 or 6 story buildings would be very uneconomical due to land cost-except for a few select specialty structures. If rebuild occurs, larger structures will be needed. Existing zoning rules will be trumped by federal government regulations, especially FEMA, which will ultimately control the rebuild in a disaster area. This will have significant impacts on insurance, loans, etc which will dictate whether or not an area can/will rebuild. The government has significant say on the rebuild in ways you sometimes cannot imagine. For example, a bad storm will wipe out the causeway bridge. The government wont rebuild the causeway unless they have a say in the future development of Miami Beach, because other bridges, although less convenient, still exist to access the island. Remember, miami beach is a barrier island, and so is actually under greater threat than New Orleans and most other coastal communities to storm surge.
From the Daily Business Review…
“Mezzanine lender gives up on troubled Biscayne Landing”
“Momentis, which seized the 373-unit property from Boca Developers in July after the developer defaulted on a construction loan, has agreed to hand the project over to iStar Financial, the senior lender.”
What do you think iStar will do with this 1/2 finished project? Surely they will not try to finish this… right? Any thoughts?
South Beach doesn’t have as great a public transit infrastructure as Downtown and Brickell do. If but some strange chance, they’d start building more high-rises in SoFi, the amount of people living there would surge. Not to mention, most Miamians work in the Downtown area. Buses can only do so much, and with no Metro expansions planned for South Beach, it’d only be a matter of time before SoBe is an island of congestion and the quality of life would falter.
South Beach should focus on buildings below 10 stories, because that’s what the transportation infrastructure there can handle. Downtown and Brickell however, is where all the high-rises in Miami should go. Not only do you have buses that take you to every corner of the city, you’ve got Metromover AND Metromover if you don’t even feel like walking a block.
Downtown and Brickell can afford Manhattan-type construction, South Beach can not. I would be highly against any more high-rise construction in Miami Beach. High-rises belong in IMO in Downtown or Brickell.
*Metrorail and Metromover in Downtown and Brickell.
gables — Perhaps we’re operating under different assumptions. I’ve been assuming, in my comments, that 100%, or very close to 100%, of the owners in SoFi have insurance and, in the aftermath of a disaster, would use insurance proceeds to rebuild according to existing zoning and regulations. You seem to be talking about new owners coming in (e.g., your comments about “land cost,” etc.)
Moreover, it seems to me that the residents of the existing high-rises would have even more clout in the aftermath of a disaster, as a lot of residents of smaller, damaged buildings likely would move (or be forced) out of the area, at least temporarily.
Further, the idea that FEMA would just come in and dictate policy is a stretch. FEMA had trouble doing that in a corrupt slum located below sea level (e.g., 9th Ward of NOLA). The current SoFi HOA seems like it could eat FEMA for breakfast.
AJ said: “In any other city in America this would have been unthinkable. Probably the only city in America where someone ridicules grout lines in tiling and having a combined bath and shower.”
– Well AJ, for $1M I expect a separate shower and tub and the correct finishes. I have noticed the service levels in South Florida to be poor and sending curtains back to the cleaner after paying $2500 for cleaning, if not done right, seems like they HOA is trying to get what they paid for. 5 cars in NYC…what a joke.
Brody (#53),
SoBe is already way too congested. In fact, I pretty much hate having to go there now just because having to deal with the traffic, swarms of people, and lack of parking is such a hassle. I can’t even imagine how bad it would be if they starting putting more highrises in.
RT,
I was against sending all the curtains to get rid of a stain on one of them for $2500 in the first place. That was a waste of my money. Resending them for another free wash to make them a shade lighter is nothing but OCD. I have no complaints if someone has OCD as long as it is not costing money.
Sure thing, if you say you have 6 mil and in the market for a 1.5 mil condo, I can imagine you demanding top of the line amenities. I still remember only 1 out of 3 responses here supported my point of you. Others still expressed amazement at the combination tub and shower. It is highly unlikely that 3 out of 4 guys in this blog are so wealthy that they are out of touch with reality. I was talking about those living like and pretending as if they are rich.
I do not understand the last part regarding 5 cars. What do you mean by a joke? You think someone cannot have 5 cars in NY? (yeah, in Manhattan it is not possible). I need 2 for my biz (actually suv), 1 as a car about town and 1 sports car for my pleasure. I agree that I have 1 more car and that is in excess and needs to go. I can garage all of them in my suburban home and so I can afford to have them (all paid off except one) . However much I hate cars, I need them in the suburbs. So for now I am stuck.
When I move to Miami, I will keep one suv for lugging stuff for my biz, 1 car about town and 1 fun car. I have made arrangements to park them all.
Care to explain your barb?
AJ, what kind of cars do you have? I’m curious.
No AJ, you’re a financial genius with investing in condos toward the peak of the bubble in at least one of the worst market areas and owning 5 depreciating cars…. I guess all that “research” didn’t do any good eh? With regard to a combo tub/shower…get real, maybe in a rental apartment but in an expensive condo, come on. Don’t know why they couldn’t spot clean the curtain, oh well.
Yeah, no kidding — $2,500 to clean drapes? That sounds like a classic Miami inside job.
AJ,
I didn’t pay 1 million for my flat and I got a separate shower and a jacuzzi, in my master bedroom. I live on a 2/2.5 on the 35th floor in Brickell facing the water. Building was completed in 2006. I got a smooth concrete ceiling finish on non-soffit areas. Unlike 1800 where you have textured ceilings and soffits (drop ceilings). BTW did the polished bronze shower curtain rod and matching bronze mirror came with each unit?
Marina blue has seperate shower an tub. Grout lines are disgusting. Likely aj’s pleasure vehicle is a new 2006 honda accord with only 30k miles. LOL!
Joe,
I’m with you on that. But I am not surprised anymore with what happens in Miami.
In NYC, some guys come and pick em up and do the job for a few hundred dollars max (the drapes are very large and hung from a height).
But in Miami things are done arse wise (differently). Some guys in smartly dressed uniforms in fancy trucks decend on the place with walkie talkies. They rig cranes and other jumble instead of just bringing some expandable ladders to bring the curtains down and do other shenanigans. I just hate all the show and pomp this bankrupt city and its citizens put up.
Another case of idiotic waste at a very basic level. In a NY deli the guys are making bagels and sandwiches with their bare hands and 18 million of us are still alive and kicking. I go to this bodega in Bay Parc Plaza and the mamacita puts on a disposable gloves, makes a sandwich, disposes off the gloves, rings up at the register and puts on another pair to make another sandwich and the cycle repeats. They probably throw a box(100) of plastic gloves everyday. No one ever heard of a simple washing of hands before handling the food?
All these things add up. As an outsider, I see the wastage and unnecessary pomp that Miamians perpetrate. It is a shame and a disgrace. I don’t know when that is going to change.
Joe,
Insurance will not cover the costs of rebuilding in a large disaster area. what should be a $75k repair becomes $125k, because you are competing with a limited number of contractors, supplies, etc. And have you ever had work done by a contractor in Miami? To find somebody who can actually do the job right is nearly impossible, and for a realistic price is impossible. Imagine relying on somebody to rebuild your three story structure with any reliability! Might as well do it yourself.
Current property owners will sell rather than try to rebuild in that environment-that is where the new developers come into play. And dont give too much credit to the SoFi HOA versus FEMA. FEMA has a federal bureaucracy behind it. You want your federal grant money for disaster recovery? You follow FEMA, not SoFi HOA! Grant money not available unless you raise your first livable floor to above maximum flood level. Otherwise you are not eligible for federal flood insurance-the only flood insurance you can buy! Vulture developers will sit by and pick off the properties which fall behind financially, then cut a deal with the feds to build hurricane resistant structures on the island. These folks will just laugh at the SoFi HOA. If Miami Beach wants their cut of federal disaster funds, they will need to remove zoning restrictions etc if FEMA demands so. Been there and done that-speaking from experience.
criterion,
Don’t try to drag 1800 in the picture. It is irrelevant to the subject. But if you insist, some line of flats in 1800 do have seperate tub and shower. So do all the master bedrooms in the 3BR line (01).
I think seperate tub and shower take up a lot of precious living space square footage that you pay maintainance and taxes on. If anything, I would just have a shower instead.
DJ, My pride and joy is a SRT Crossfire Roadster (only 900 were ever made). I don’t want to go too deep into the make and model of the others. In anycase I want to live car free (for the most part) one day in Miami. Living in downtown makes it possible. I am looking forward to it.
Aj you have now gone off the deep end .ever heard of fecal oral transmission of illness you tard? They freaking use gloves atburger king. Youact likeitsforshow WTF! Fail!
AJ,
If the drape folks just showed up with ladders, they could only charge $2k for the job. By performing the same task with 5 individuals, a crane, communications and command unit, two lawyers and oversight from the city inspection crew, they are justified in charging you $15k for $2k worth of laundry! Remember you need to spend another $2k just to obtain the permits for the job, and the city only authorizes a select few people to perform each of the tasks. Its a great racket if you work on the inside-frustrating if you are on the outside looking in. Their goal is to spend as much of your money as possible-this is the best industry Miami has!
Aj, do you mean a Chrysler crossfire srt model. Double fail!lmfao!
14k trade in value! Pathetic overload! Pride and joy? LOL! I just pissed myself!
AJ, you’re a good dude, but that last post of yours is completely ridiculous. The drape cleaning issue in your building has nothing to do with the “flash and pizzazz” of miami, and everything to do with the fact that whoever is running your HOA is an idiot. Whenever you’re contracting to have service work done, the first thing you do is shop around for price, and then play the top couple bids against each other. I’m sure the people your building hired to clean the drapes don’t have a monopoly on the drape cleaning business here in Miami. If they ripped you guys off, it’s your own fault.
Second, I don’t what you’re ranting about with people putting on gloves before they make your sandwiches. It’s called hygeine, and if preffer your greasy bodega owner to handle your bagel with the same hands he just didn’t wash after wiping his ass, then so be it, I’ll take the gloves. Go to any fast food restaurant, Subway for example, and the employees never touch the food without gloves on their hands. And yes, if they handle your money, they change into a fresh set. That’s not a Miami thing, they do that everywhere, even in glove-phobic NYC.
Honestly, some of your arguments are so ridiculous, I have no idea what point you’re even trying to make, but I ask you this: If you’re so disgusted by the waste and pomp of Miami (wearning gloves to handle food is the pinacle of trendiness BTW) then why are you so keen to move here?
…and I still would like to hear about your 5 cars.
^Should have read that before posting. Few errors, but you get the idea….
Ah. common DJ don’t be so naive. It is now my turn to laugh my arse off at the innocence of you poor folks. You guys have no f@#$%^ clue as to what goes on in a restaurant. A 2 penny bodega or a five star restaurant. If you think your sous chef is not blowing his nose in the lobster bisque that you just ordered, you are innocent as a virgin. I guess that is why they call ignorance is bliss. What the eye don’t see, heart don’t mind. The sign in the bathroom that says “Employees must wash their hands”, you have no idea how many employees ignore that. Due to the line of biz I am in, I have to go for a food handler and food managers safety course every 3 years and the statistics as told by the health inspectors of the county are unbelievable. Not many of the employees follow directions.
And that other bozo who thinks that wearing a glove is more hyginic than a clean washed hand, is eating a lump of shit everyday and he doesnt even know it LOL.
A glove not used right is worse than a bare hand. The best thing to prepare food is a nice and clean soap washed hand. Show me one sushi chef in this world who wears gloves to make sushi. Oh well, I am in a country where people think bottle water is cleaner than tap water. I cant educate em all. So I will live and let live.
AJ, this goes back to the topic of buildigs needing to collect reserves. If cleaning the fucking drapes cost $2500 can you imagine having to do some kind of repair that may be more involved? I’m telling you, many people don’t appreciate the true cost of maint/repairs on buildings until they call out a couple contractors for bids, then comes the sticker shock.
AJ, that’s just plain silly. Do you also refuse to wear condoms because they’re only 99.99% effective?
MMT,
I am still reeling at the audacity of the assn paying $2500 for cleaning the drapes. Please don’t rub it in. If I was there I would have called a few people some choice names. I will try my best to make sure that such stupidity does not occur again.
Oh, not to forget the food runner sneezing on your salad in the corridor between the kitchen and the dining section! But luckily, as disgusting as these actions are, we are not falling sick as we have developed a good enough immunity to these kind of things. It is yuck to think about it, but in reality it is not doing anything major. If not we would all be curling up and dying from all kinds of things, big and small. So if anyone else mentions hygiene, I will just throw up. Unless you buy all your groceries and triple wash at home and cook everything yourself before you put in your mouth, zip with the hygiene thingy. If you eat at least once a day outside your home, you have a 99% chance that you put fecal matter or someone else’s body fuids in your mouth. Live with it.
DJ, wrong analogy. Do not compare Getting HIV and getting the runs as the same thing. I will do everything possible to minimise the risk of HIV transmission by wearing condoms or other precautions. But If I get a stomach upset because I ate at a place is not enough to go bat shit crazy about hygiene. When you decide to eat out, you have surrendered your hygiene requirements. What goes on behind the kitchen door is wholly left up to chance, no matter how fancy the place is. You can get lucky or get served some body fluids. Either way it is not the end of the world.
Not trying to rub your face in it, I know it sounds outrageous but you have to realize that this is a speality. You can’t take those drapes to the corner cleaners, I’m sure you need a special machine to clean and dry that much material so there are probably only a few companies that has that capability. Then to go up that high they automatically hit you for extra money. It was the same with our vegas fountain, Just trying to get someone east of the mississippi to fix the damn thing was not as easy as you might think.
I gotta hand it to you AJ, you’ll argue a point into the ground no matter what side of right you’re on. Since the glove issue has nothing to do with condos, I’ll respectfully bow out.
MMT, You have a point. It is a speciality. But then as RT suggested, they could have spot cleaned the one bad curtain and lived with it for a little while longer until all the curtains get a bit more soiled and justify the cost of cleaning. I guess we have some very prissy and smarmy characters living in the building alongside those who are trying to cut costs at every where possible. What can I say? Next stop, they want to rip up and replace 19 tiles with tiny and almost unnoticeable chips at some corners! Damn.
Lucas you really need to start charging admission to this place – I mean this stuff is getting hilarious. (“If you think the sous chef is not blowing his nose in the lobster bisque you just ordered, your as innocent as a virgin”) Honey can you call back Le Festival and cancel our reservation for tonite as I am feeling a bit of queasy.
silly actions in a building, like the drapery cleaning or redesigning hallways or lobbies, are usually the result of a management company trying to show activity. if they cannot show how needed they are to keep a building kept, why are they still in existence? we just painted the sprinkler water lines red in the garage. never knew they even existed until now! management companies like to spend money to show activity, not save it in reserve.
I tell you what guys I bought a condo during the boom for $350,000 (although I got a great deal, 1,800 square feet in coconut grove) , its now worth about $325,000 but I got my mortgage modified from $2,600 a month to $1,230 a month a few weeks ago. Buying a condo at the peak ended up being a blessing for me, I know have 5 year rate under 2%, you’ll never get that rate today anywhere, only for us who were lucky enough to buy in the boom, now the banks are practically making my payments for me, yay!!!!!!!
gables – I’m thinking that fire sprinkler lines that are exposed must be painted red. I see that in all the new buildings and the regular water lines are painted blue. It must be a code thing to prevent someone from getting the lines cross contaminated or something like that (or water pressure issues)??? But I agree the management companies need to present themselves as irreplaceable.
With respect to plastic gloves for food handlers…I’m all for it in Miami for sure. What they really need is a dedicated cashier since once people touch money, they need new gloves. That would at least reduce waste. The cheap plastic gloves is well worth the cost of preventing illnesses. Silly to argue otherwise…..plus some people won’t eat there if people don’t wear gloves.
“audacity of the assn paying $2500 for cleaning the drapes”
Somebody is getting some kickbacks. Welcome to Miami.
Is anybody living in Everglades right now.. is it open?
Mike,
Obviously things are working out for you right now. If you can ride out the entire payment of the mortgage under these low payments, more power to you. But you still owe more on the property than it is worth. If you need to sell for any reason, then you take a big hit. After five years, you probably revert back to normal interest rates-which will be much higher at that point. Banks will not allow short sales in five years, so you will have much less bargaining power in the future, and foreclosures may not be so easy by then as well.
RT,
I had the same thought regarding the paint on the water lines-driven by the code. Funny thing is this building has been open since around 2004, and just now the lines have been painted. And some sprinkler lines are still unpainted. No other water lines have been painted either. Chalk the mystery up to this region we call Miami i guess!
Just an aside from the drapes issue….
Publix at Mary Brickell Village is now open. Went in this morning and checked out the store. Nice, friendly service, but quite a bit smaller than the other two Pulix in the area, but a much needed addition to the neighborhood. Its a true urban Publix (easily walkable from many of the condo buildings with parking above the store if needed). I live two blocks away on Brickell and plan to make this my new grocery store….
Its great to see Mary Brickell and this neighborhood evolving as well; LA Fitness is close to opening their sales center (gym looks to be another 3-6 months from opening). Also, a new vitamin store, Saladcreations, floral shop and chocolate store just opened in MBV as well. Lot of foot traffic in this area during the day and week. New stores seem to be opening all over the area…..not bad for the greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression.
gables – I noticed that the outside fire sprinkler lines on the Trump Towers in SIB also had been painted red a few months ago…the ones that are exposed on the beach side and kinda ruin the look a bit. Same in my building. Not sure why it is such an issue and would prefer that they be painted the same color as the walls to blend in…..don’t see what the big advantage is esp. with the entire building sprinklered how big can a fire get? Maybe it is like those lights that are supposed to light up on the floor of an airplane during an emergency, probably have never saved one person from anything, but was a good idea in concept.
One sign, most probably, is that mortgage interest rates had bottomed. Now, with a bit higher rates, and even higher coming in the future at some point, home prices will need to decline. Again, the low interest rates do little good if you over pay for the asset. Remember, price first, financing second. For a cash buyer, things are getting even better…
AZ88,
Same experience, and thoughts regarding the OMNI-Midtown Biscayne Corridor. I was also wondering what recession? New stores and restaurants are opening by the week (many similar franchises as MBV such as Salad creations, smoothie King etc) and things are never looking better. I guess we all should feel happy that downtown and Brickell are truly becoming live, play, work and shop destinations.
and oh, BTW thanks for sharing some developmental information regarding your nabe. Not many prople do that on this site.
92 and 93 should have been AJ. I typed in AZ’s handle by mistake.
Peter Zalewski with Condo Vultures just released a survey showing “52% of the 34,253 condo units in the greater downtown Miami area are now available for rent with several buildings where the majority are now rentals, including Sail on Brickell, with 92% rentals; Jade Residences at Brickell Bay, 88%; 1800 Club on Bayshore Drive, 96%; Midtown Four,95%; and 50 Biscayne,60%. Zalewski based his survey on deeds recorded, interviews with property managers and on homestead declarations filed by primary owners. The DDA (Downtown Development Authority) is expected to show similar results in its Residential Closings and Occupancy Study to be released soon done by Goodkin Consultants and Focus Real Estate Advisors. But Lewis Goodkin is quoted as saying that “foreclosures are still rampant in some buildings”.
In regard to the new openings Downtown and in MBV-lets just say THIP P being Publix that is as this is exactly what we residents needed if only it were a whole foods but hey thats another story (the chef in me)..Asa far as the others they are mostly and I repeat Mostly chain stores who had long ago sized up the neighborhood and just recently took advantage of the depressed rents that they were given, and now with Publix you will see a whole different reality in MBV.
In regard to the Condo Vultures study its interesting to note however within those figures is the reality that these renters are lowering the values of these units as while not one to steryotype, the class of people moving in and renting leaves a lot to be desired. And whom is doing the renting is it owners or is it the developers who in a scare are buying up their own units under a dummy company and renting them out so as to get back some revenue-Remember someone we know has a 500 MM mortgage due in a few days and I dont kow about you all but thats a big check to write.
AJ,
I like the OMNI-Pace-Midtown Corridor; however, it is not as compact, walkable and doesn’t have much of a neighborhood feel to it. I dined recently directly on Biscayne Boulevard and would have to say I didn’t enjoy the experience. Spending good money on a steak dinner, then having semis rolling by spewing out exhaust and deafening my dinner conversation just isn’t a pleasant experience. Plus you’ve got homeless situation which is quite apparent. Midtown (if it ever fills up) and the Design District (although traffic and bad accessibility) are much better in that area for dining out, walking, etc. Pace park is great too.
Busted! Aj the pscho uses multiple handles! Hahaha!
Az88 we know you love PACe park! LOL aj!
psycho I mean! As in psychopath, use: aj is a psychopath
“management companies like to spend money to show activity, not save it in reserve.” — gables
Plus, it’s a lot harder to steal money straight from the reserves, but the more money that’s spent with outside firms, the easier it is to get kickbacks, etc. This is common with condos everywhere, so God only knows how common it is in corrupt Miami.
—
gables — Your point above about getting quality work done in Miami reminded me of something I’ve been meaning to ask here: Just what *is* the quality of the average SoFi condo unit as far as finishes, need for minor repairs, etc., etc.? I know they all have luxury prices, but does the work match the pricetag, or are problems common? For all the talk here about condos and prices and whatnot, I almost never read any actual reviews or feedback about the quality of specific condo buildings. If you or anyone else can shed any light, I’d appreciate it. Thanks.
Oops, I still had this page open from last night when I posted my last comment. After the page refreshed, I noticed JL made the some point I just did re: kickbacks. Didn’t mean to double-post the same comment.
Mike, does that mean you are one of those condo speculators who bought a 350K condo
on a 70K salary. I’m not mad at you but I wouldn’t go about touting that on a national blog.
Sorry gables but I actually owe less than it’s worth, I owe $275,000 and its worth $350,000. And after 5 years that rate goes up .25 each year to a max of 4.0 percent, and yes I can more than afford the new payment, it’s practically free at that price. You are obviously just pissed because you want everyone to foreclose so you can snag a great deal, sorry bud aint gonna happen, I got lucky because I bought in the boom and now have a lower payment then ever though possible because banks are being foreced to lower everyones payments. Deal with it bro and thanks tax payers for bailing me out!
Um, if it was really worth $350,000 — i.e., the bank could sell it at that price TODAY — they wouldn’t have modified your loan.
Mike how does that work.
If your Mtg is 1230/mo. on $275,000 @ 2%, How much of that is taxes and HOA?
did they modify your taxes and HOA pmt too?
If any of you worked for the hotels or hospitals in Miami or not necessarily in Miami would you know how much of hotel or hospital budget goes against fighting with mold. Is it a big issue? Any info on this matter will be highly appreciated
Mike,
I am not bitter and am glad things are working out for you. Personally would not like to be in your shoes. You owe $275k on a property that is probably not really worth $350k. Most condos today are not worth over $300k-just simple economics will dictate that. Property is only worth what it can sell for. There are literally hundreds of properties i could buy right now that seem like a great deal like yours. I can rent for half the price of homeownership right now. As RT says, the carefree rental lifestyle is fantastic. But to each their own. Remember, even though your payments are low, you still owe the principal when you sell. You really think you can recoup that any time soon? All a lower interest rate does is push off the inevitable unless you hold the property for the duration of the loan.
Hello, could someone please give me some pros and cons of the one miami condo buildings. I haven’t been able to get any good information.
Thanks,
Louis
Mike’s story is full of so many holes guys don even bother with his BS. So, where were we?
Someone must have some info on the Harbour House in Bal Harbour. It seems it is a conversion done by Related. Generally I do not like conversions but this looks good from the pics. Any info or comments would be greatly appreciated. I think we have decided to be on the beach and the Bal Harbour area is very nice, at least from the few times I have visited.
South of Fifth would be my first choice to live on the beach. Probably in the entire USA. However the prices are way over my budget especially in the newer buildings. Condo price combined with taxes and HOA is killer!
Miami2000, have no fear. Just do what Mike did….you can get a million dollar condo then just work out the loan so your payments are only $52.00/month.
Miami2009,
I agree with you about SoFi. Would love to live in the area, but cost is out of reach. They now have a world class park on the beach, easy (and unobstructed) access to the causeway and greater miami area, but still live in their own little isolated pocked of paradise. Demand for the area will be high for professionals (not just the rich) to want to live there. I wont pay $400k for a condo in Brickell, but I would for one in SoFi-even if it is not on the water. Which is why eventually I think you will see more interior development. Congestion will not really be a problem because you cannot expand out, only up, and will really never build upwards more people than the infrastructure can handle.
“Congestion will not really be a problem because you cannot expand out, only up, and will really never build upwards more people than the infrastructure can handle.” — gables
I love SoFi, but isn’t the #1 knock against SoFi TODAY that congestion is a problem? It seems like I’ve been hearing that since before the latest towers went up, which is why I thought everyone, from government down to the local HOA, agreed there would be no further increase in density — ???
Gables, I agree 100%. This is why I am now looking into the Bal Harbour area. Seems to me it is the next best area next to SOFI. Houbour House has some good pricing now.
Gables, I agree 100%. This is why I am now looking into the Bal Harbour area. Seems to me it is the next best area next to SoFi. Harbour House has some good pricing now.
Joe,
Whenever I go to the barrier island, it is almost exclusively to the SoFi area, and I have never really dealt with any traffic. Head north of SoFi, into Miami Beach, and its a different story. But not in SoFi. Just my own experience. Joe, have you personally experienced significant congestion in SoFi, and not the remainder of Miami Beach? My best guess is the griping is with SoFi people who have to drive north through MB to go somewhere, but controlling SoFi density will have a minimal impact on the remainder of MB.
Miami2009,
Would love to do the same, but work typically keeps me south of Downtown Miami. This makes SoFi the ideal location for me on the island. The other areas are really nonstarters due to transit.
Gables…. jeez so much jealousy here, so you are saying you can find an 1,800 sq ft condo in coconut grove for under $1,230? I don’t think so, actually I know you can’t, you won’t even find a 900 sq ft condo for that price. Just deal with the fact that we are all paying half as much on our mortgages as we should be ( thank you bailout! ), you were obviously just waiting for the bottom to fall out, but what you failed to consider is that even if some people do owe more than there property worth ( which I don’t, 75 k in equity ), with the loan modifications it so so cheap now, it costs far less then even renting a place. FYI that payment does include my property taxes… makes your mouth water doesn’t it?
“$75,000 in equity” my rear end. If that was true, the bank would have foreclosed and sold the place. Please give us a break with the nonsense.
Mike, I suppose you also have a Ferrari in the garage and a second home in Manhattan as well. You have a great imagination and live in a fantasy world, but no credibility.
So much jealousy here, jeez guys just deal with it, you missed out!!!!! Ahahahhhahahaha!
BTW, I wasnt pending a foreclosure when I got the loan mod genius, I just applied because I heard they were giving them away… and guess what I was right! For people who supposedly “know real estate” I would think you are aware 1,800 sq ft in the grove is worth at least 350 k, makes your mouth water doesn’t it.
Ha ha ha … “Just giving them away” … Ha ha ha ha !!!!
Seriously, take some of the money you, ahem, “saved” on your mortgage and get back on the meds. The idea some random bank just shaved $100,000 or $150,000 off of an (allegedly) PERFORMING loan is so idiotic it doesn’t warrant further replies.