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wow!! Lucas, how come you post these sales after the fact? It is a cock teaser. You cant have em anymore. I particularly love the units at One Miami and Cite for 150K and 100k. What the heck, I could have picked up one myself. With one bedrooms renting at $1000ish, it is a +cash flow or close.
So the next time post the foreclosure and bank approved short sales before the fact so that people here can take advantage. One of my friend in NY would have bought either of those two in a heart beat and all cash.
Unit 2213 at Cite was bought on 1/2005 for $220,900. A complete disaster for owners who payed over $200,000. A hit and a rip is the only way out.
Lucas:
I agree with AJ.
Given what has been written in this blog that distressed properties is the best (and in my opinion the only) way to get a deal, I think it would be good business for you if you add a distressed tab above so everyone can look what’s available.
It’s a bit of a pain going through every building to see what’s available.
Hope that helps
One Miami unit 3916 was bought for $400,000 on 10/2006. Sold for $150,000 5/2009. Stop paying mortgage, maintenance fees and steal the appliances. Only way out.
Mr. Perez paid bought unit 1002 at Jade on 12/2006 for $1,600,000. He sold it for $375,000 on 5/2009. Stop paying mortgage, maintenance fees and steal the appliances. Only way out.
Some guys got really lucky with One Miami and Cite. The one Miami unit directly overlooks all of Bayfront Park and beyond. The cite unit, no views but has the best location advantage of being near Pace Park and among all the up coming conveniences on the Biscayne Blvd. The price paid is peanuts.
But the irony is that the smart folks who read this blog are not benefiting from such distressed sales. Some ignoramus must have stumbled on this with the help of an equally ignorant RE agent and bought it. Not fair for the loyal readers and followers of this blog.
Que Lastima!
My question is;
Lucas, were these properties featured on your Condo Deals page? If they did and none of us bothered to look at that page, then it is our fault. But if you never featured them and escaped your eye and your research, then you gotta pull up your socks a bit.
No win situation. Once people do the math an realize their investment went down over 50% they will stop paying mortgage and maintenance fees. The cash buyers are screwed because the board can lien and foreclose on their cash units. They are stuck paying for all the losers that took off.
I fail to see how the runners up are not better deals than the first five so called winners all of which sold way above market value. I’ll take $114.00 per square foot any day all day.
Amazing views from that One Miami unit.
Lucas,
Would you please explain why I cannot find these units neither on your condo deals nor in the list of units for sale or sold. You have the list of buildings in each area of Miami where the list of units for sale and sold is supposed to be updated from MLS every 5 days. I think you mentioned it once.
Please explain
Yeah, lets all blame Lucas. Everyone should get a refund for your membership fees to come here.
Noone is blaming Lucas. We are simply asking. That’s it. If the listings are old that’s fine too as long as we know about it.
Some of the listings may have been on the Condo Deals page. It’s hard to say because the listings are automatically removed from that page once the listing is no longer available. I must admit though that I’ve been pretty bad about keeping the Condo Deals page regularly updated over the past 30 days because I was on vacation part of the time and have been extremely busy with work lately. Ask any agent and they’ll tell you that business has picked up immensely since April. I’m actually quite surprised because this time of year it is usually very slow.
Lara, the individual listings on the site are updated every 24 hours. The closed sales and rentals should be updated every 2 weeks but I sometimes need to remind my developer to download the data again.
I do plan to start the Condo Deals page from scratch again and manually enter the listings. It can be a time consuming task to scour the listings but I hope to tackle it early next week.
The last CLOSING RATE post for new condos that Lucas posted was over 4 months ago February 8th. We dont know if any units are closing or not. Lara pointed out about completed sales pages not being current. Not bitching just saying.
Relax, you all will like the June deals more than the May ones and the July ones more than the June ones and the August ones more than the July ones…. You haven’t missed anything here.
Zilbert is doing a good job with his listings annotating short/foreclosed with the listing. Assuming his data is up to date and accurate, One Miami has quite a lot of listings that are short sales. In fact for the 3BRs he’s showing that there are 11 short sale listings vs. 8 normal ones. Nice ratio… NOT
On 1/2006 unit 1512 at Skyline was purchased for $587,000. Unit sold on 5/2009 for $305,000.
Unit 306 in the same building was
purchased on 8/2005 for $590,000. Unit sold on for $349,000 on 5/2009.
Dine and dash.
gables, keep your powder dry and get ready. miami 2009, where are you? Same goes to you too. I think the time to grab a short sale and foreclosure is now. These are the only deals that are half off the peak prices. Everyone else is holding off hoping that once all the distressed property is off the market, they can still get their asking price.
So if the economy improves, which looks like it will by the end of the year with no further job losses, the foreclosure list may not get any bigger. As long as there are short sales and foreclosures available in a building, no one will touch the regular priced unit.
Another angle to look at this is “all buildings are not the same”. Some buildings have minuscule or single digit percentage distressed props and others have upto 30%. The former will hold better than the later. And you all know which ones belong to the first column and which ones to the second.
AJ — I’m not so sure the foreclosure list won’t get any bigger, with or without additional job losses. I believe there’s like a trillion dollars in mortgages that are scheduled to reset over the next 12-24 months — ???
The reason realtors do not push or advertise deals like the “so called runners up” and why the they state that the first five over priced deals are better deals than the lower priced deals can be summed up in one word: commission.
Aj, I am on the sidelines just waiting ;-). Can someone tell me how to find these deals before they get sold? I will be down in August to take another look. Since prices have been coming down I have broadened my search to include Bal Harbour and Miami Beach as well.
AJ,
There will be more distressed properties available because they are in the pipeline already. Look at Skyline on Brickell for example. In the public records, there are 107 lis pendens filings and only 30 transfers of title to banks so far. Now not every filing leads to a finalized foreclosure and a few bank owned properties may have already been sold but there is still a large pool of foreclosures trickling through the legal system.
The driver to foreclosures isn’t only the economy and unemployment but the deeply negative cash flow that some of the speculators who purchased during the bubble are experiencing. If you look through public records at some of the buildings that were either built during the bubble or had high turnover, their delinquency rates are often in the 30-40% range of total units. There are exceptional buildings that don’t fall into this pattern of course but it isn’t clear how the distressed inventory in other buildings will affect the prices even in the more stable condos.
Looks like Bernie Koser got done in by the real estate bug.
AJ
I never took you for a plagerist, surely you quote The Ace without giving due credit.
Advertising these deals is like advertising the collapse of your industry. All your clients that bought at the peak are destroyed. All the people who buy these short sales will be destroyed when the maintenance fees go up. You’re essentially looking at a blog that is documenting the downfall of Miami similar to the crash of 1926.
odds & sods,
I cant believe I am agreeing with you a second time in a month! That may be true. selling a $100,000 unit will only fetch $3000 in commission. But the realtors must realize that no one is buying that Million dollar penthouse. A $3000 in the pocket is better than the imaginary $30,000 (3% commission on a $million condo) that you are never going to make. At least not anytime soon.
I dont know how some can say that foreclosure inventory will be smaller in the near future. Look at the stats below. It takes 6-9 months for it to work through the system.
Can someone please let me know how i can look public records to see how much a unit sold for in the past?
Realtors are still in dreamland. Every time a unit sells, they seem to think things the worst is over.
I’ll never forget the time I sold a condo and listed it with only a 7% commission instead of the standard 8% (in that area), and then had multiple agents tell me “they only showed full-commission” properties.
Ha ha ha! Enjoy unemployment, scumbags!
Realtards as they say. This party is just gettin’ started! it’s going to last for YEARS. YEARS. Mark my words. The price collapse is just starting. Unemployment just hit a record in the 33 years they are keeping records. Recalibrated to the way they kept stats in the 1930s unemployment is near 20 %. This is going to be a bloodbath.
The bottom will be in when AJ finally admits he is finacially ruined and/or he hangs himself. Buy then and only then. By my estimation that is a few years away.
Generalization whether it is about agents or politics, or group of people, views on life and etc ruined civilizations, led to cruel wars, tragedies in human life. Not all agents are the same.If one is a real estate agent or talent agent or a sports agent. It is a matchmaking process. Find the right one, take your time to actually look for one. In re to real estate it really depends what your goals are. Being an investor I work all the time with agents on both sides of transactions.
None of us like to pay comissions but it is a necessary part like a stop on the red light. If you can be without it so do it.
I found the right agents to be very informative, helpful and proactive. Like in every profession there are good and bad ones.
The bottom is in. Cash buyers are jumping in. Foreign investors just arrived to MIA. I recommend multiple offers on multiple properties. Buy multiple units in one building. This boom is going to be even bigger than the last.
Wild Bill #32 has got to be a phoney. Wild Bill has stated that condos are never a good investment. Why the sudden change?
“this boom” hahahahah! Wild Bill #32 = AJ = AZ88 = Lara
Many RE agents are losers (professionally). They open the door to show you the flat and expect to pocket the commission. I am so glad they are all out of work and I hope that they continue to be out of work. But there are a few agents/brokers like Lucas or Samir, who work hard for their commission (even though I did not work with Lucas, the work he puts on this site proves that he earns his clients keep).
Even then I seriously object to the 6% commission days.
In the days of yore when the agents have to actually pay to advertise in Newspapers and mags, keep open offices with high rents, it made sense to charge that much.
In the days of internet with free Craigslist powerpost ads and own websites and the agents can work out of their homes with minimal overheads 6% is not justified. I think 4% should be a well justified commission. 2% for the listing agent and 2% for the selling agent. At 4% I will list my flat to be sold with a full service agent (not a help u sell or some do it ur self service) . If the commission does not come below 6%, I will sell it myself. I am smart enough and intelligent enough to be able to sell my own flat. I will never believe the agents when they say “you have more chance of selling it with an agent and get your asking price”. That is just a scare tactic they have been using for generations. It may apply to lazy owners and those who do not know much about RE. But to individuals who are well versed in RE dealings and have some time on their hands, they can sell their own flats saving thousands of dollars.
I have been supportive of good RE agents for a while. So I believe I have earned my stripes to be able to criticize the 6% commission.
I have one word of friendly advice to all the RE agents. Don’t hate me for saying this. But yours is the only profession apart from the screw driver operator in a GM factory who does not need a major skill set or a college degree but paid a ton.
Look what happened to the GM workers when they refused to compromise on the $40-$60/hour union jobs with benefits. Don’t be obstinate and suffer the GM workers fate. Change with the times and accept what is right and reasonable. Your jobs will be safe well into the next century. If not, be prepared to be marginalized and obsolete.
BMW M3,
That was the real me in post #32. I found a new doctor and have new meds. Everything is looking good. Going to place a few offers on Monday. My taxi driver confirmed. Foreigners are in town.
AJ — If you think 6% is bad, head to New York. The standard fee there has been 7% to 8% for years. See my post #28.
—
Lara — “Not all agents are the same.If one is a real estate agent or talent agent or a sports agent.”
— Ouch! Touche.
“None of us like to pay comissions but it is a necessary part like a stop on the red light.”
— I don’t object to commissions; I work in a commission business myself. My problems are these: (1) a 6% to 8% fee, in this day and age, is absolutely outrageous; (2) realtors have been running a price-fixing racket for decades (i.e., my post #28 — a lot of agents won’t even show reduced-commission properties); and (3) realtors invented the whole “buyer’s agent” scam in which the “buyer’s agent” supposedly works for the buyer but actually LOSES money by negotiating a lower price, which means the whole “buyer’s agent” gimmick is a fraud at least 9 times out of 10. The whole r.e. agent business needs a good power-washing from top to bottom, and a whole new set of rules and protocols.
As long as we’re able to hold the deals together and deliver value to our clients we have earned our commissions.
I just put under agreement a $3.5 million listing which I sold for $2.5 four years ago. After staging and networking the property was officially listed with ten showings the first week and an offer was accepted after long negotiations, which brought the offer to full asking price and increased the initial offer by $400,000. The buyers got an exceptional property.
For this my clients are paying 5% (I get 6% for less expensive properties), half goes to the selling broker, my half is split three ways with referrals, my office takes its share and then I pay for the photography, advertising and overhead.
My clients paid 5% in order to pocket $825,000 profit.
If there is any justice, the lazy brokers aren’t putting deals together in this climate, make zip and are trying to find work at Pottery Barn.
honestly, I can’t believe some of the prices I am seeing here. I have noticed that the inventory has shrunk quite considerably in the past few weeks but I have also noticed there are lots of empty houses waiting to be put on the market. I can’t figure it out, seems like the banks are deliberately keeping some houses off market in order to reduce inventory thereby trying to put the brakes on price declines. It seems that prices are spiraling downwards the lower prices are causing lower apraisals. It looks like people are still walking away from their homes in large numbers. Many people went out and bought the most expensive home they couldn’t afford in hopes that the appreciation would net them some easy money, now that it is obvious that ain’t hapening they are just walking away. I saw a house this week where the tennant stripped the house of everything, the kitchen and bath cabines, Furnace and condenser, all the doors and door jams (even the closit and pantry doors) the toilets and that big bathroom mirror was taken as well. Lucas is right, realators are busy because people are buying up these foreclosed houses like there is no tomorrow.
I think that the banks keep houses off the market because they want to take their losses gradually. The reserves are probably inadequate.
Speaking of distressed condos, check out the article in today’s (Sunday’s) Miami Herald (currently on the front page of MiamiHerald.com) titled, “Condos squeeze deadbeat residents.” Things appear to be getting very, very ugly in CondoLand.
I wonder if the writer reads this site, as one of Renter Tom’s favorite phrases — “condo death spiral” — is used about halfway through the piece.
I don’t think Wild Bill is showing not original purchase prices but rather inflated resales and probably a fraud case one at the Jade.
In my opinion listing agents deserve max 1% commission for their little effort–in todays world a seller could do his own listing and would probably include more than 1 picture to promote the sale–the selling agent is the one to be rewarded.
AJ,
my powder is dry and ready. there are some really good deals appearing in short sales, but not sure how valid such an offer really is. on the other hand, i am more concerned than ever about the status of HOA in buildings. i get the sinking feeling many of these buildings are going to turn into giant money pits over the next decade due to HOA costs. just a feeling, no firm proof. anybody care to share actual conditions and future projections in buildings they live/own in? would love to have more of this info.
Richard, who ever you are, I cant agree with you more. The listing agent does precious nothing. Most times, he/she puts the house key in a lock box and disappear. While I was looking at some props with Samir, One MOFO listing agent who had 3 flats in 1800 Club actually left all the main doors open and tells the selling agent to just go look for themselves! What kind of a lazy SOB does that and has the balls to collect the commission. Does the owners even know that this arse hole is leaving their flats unlocked day and night and anyone could have tampered with the appliances etc? But that is only one example.
As you said the listing agent should get no more than 1% and the selling agent should get the max benefit. Or as you said, list it yourself in the MLS and let the selling agents take over. Even if you give 3% to the selling agent, that is what normally they get anyway under a 6% regime. That way you get to keep the 3% you would have otherwise given to the listing agent.
gables,
I cant agree more. I was requesting Lucas to post a column in the condo ranking page, the HOA per sq.ft. per month. That is the single most important factor more than the 5 other criteria he has listed to rank a building. That way we can see which buildings are run efficiently and which are not.
The silly argument that low or teaser HOA rates are offered initially is so old and discredited by now. It is almost two years for most buildings and 3 years for some. No developer is subsidizing any HOA anymore to the peril of his own bankruptcy. So the HOAs you see now are more or less absolute barring special assessments for emergencies.
If Lucas is not going to post the HOAs of different buildings (not because he does not want to but because he is super busy), let us all chip in and put it on this blog ourselves.
The 1800 Club it is 42.7 cents/SF/month. So lets hear it from other owners in other buildings. If not can some RE agent post all the HOA’s that he/she knows in one single post?
Remember that empty units are not using water. The water budget is off instantly. Insurance and reserve accounts are nonexistent or bare minimum. A complete fraud to post low figures when your building has no reserves. What is this a bankers convention?
Real estate agents are not obligated to post anything but the last payments for the maintenance fees. Which is really an estimate. Maintenance fees can change at anytime. Some special assessments are added to monthly maintenance fees. I suspect that nobody knows what they were buying in the first place which is why people cannot pay their fees or they post low ball no reserve figures like 1800 Club.
We went down this road before.
I gave an open challenge to anyone to show me which of the 50 new downtown buildings have reserves built in their HOA. No one came forward. I knew it.
Talking about water bill!! The water bill part is minuscule in the overall scheme of things in the operation of a building ( It will become a major part by 2020 when water becomes as scarce as petrol but as of now it doesn’t count that much). The major Expenses are Electricity (unchanged due to the low or high occupancy), Staff (same), Insurance (Same). These do not change whether the building is 50% or 70% occupied.
So either someone should step up to the plate by talking sense or STFU.
With unemployment exceeding 14% in Miami and heading for 11% plus nationally there is a Tsumi of foreclousers on the way. And although I’ve been an admirer and follower of The Ace for some time his predicion of $125.00 which is now upon us is no where near the bottom.
Well can you all see how the arguments slowly changing. Initially some of these guys were arguing that the developer is subsidizing the HOA and hence it is low in some buildings like the 1800. That has long been debunked.
Some said that certain buildings might be cutting corners by under insuring themselves. I checked with my building insurances and they are fully insured to the mandated levels and beyond. My mortgage holding bank has accepted the fully insured figure and deemed that it is quite sufficient. So even that argument gets flushed down the toilet.
Now they are trying to talk about water consumption bill going up when my building will be fully occupied from the current 70% to 95%. OMG, I am shaking in my boots, my HOA will go up by 2 cents /SF /month due to all the extra showers that the newly arrived residents are going to take! Give me a f@#$%g break.
And you want to talk about the reserves, lets talk about the reserves. For argument sake, lets add reserves 7.3 cents /SF/month to my HOA and make it a even 50 cents /SF/Mo. Even then it will still be a cheaper HOA than any other building in the market.
So just to shut the miserable peoples mouths, lets add an automatic 5 to 10 cents to all the HOAs which do not have built in reserves so that we can compare apples to apples. Let us then see which buildings are still a value to buy into.
For example if Marina Blue charges 65 cents and has reserves, then you compare the 1800 club only after adding 10 cents and making it 52.7 cents before comparing with MB. If MB does not have built in reserves, then you compare only 42.7 cents against 65 cents. As simple as that.
I think this is long overdue. Everyone please go down to your management office and get this info please and post it here.
How mush is the HOA/SF/month?
Are their reserves built in this HOA? (If you can even find out how much percentage of the HOA is set aside for reserves, it would be great but if you do not have that info, its still OK)
Whether you are a renter or owner in a building, it does not matter. Please get this info and put it here. I will compile it all and make a chart for everyone to compare unless Lucas wants to do it himself.
Please go down to your respective management offices tomorrow or at least this week.
AJ,
The monthly fees are not a great big problem to estimate. Just divide the monthly hoa fee by square footage to get an estimate for the building. the info i am most interested in is the status of reserves, special assessments (how often and how much?), percentage of people paying dues on time, etc. this info would be great to better understand whether a building is a ticking time bomb, cheap but with known upcoming expenses, expensive but safe, average but save, etc. you get the picture.
what the buyers need to understand, is if I hold the unit for 5 to 10 years, what will be the true cost of holding. adding another $20k to $50k in special assessments over time could occur, and would be acceptable, if one could at least predict the occurrence. thus a 1B condo for $150k today would be an ok deal in a nice building, but if you truly had to add another $30k in extra HOA fees, not such a great deal. but the unit at $120k would be a deal with the added expenses. these estimates will greatly affect the value price point for each building, at least from my perspective.
March 1, 2009 Fannie Mae condo guideline:
The homeowners association must have at least 10% of its budgeted income designated for replacement reserves and adequate funds budgeted for the insurance deductible.
My 175 unit building, 7 years old, has an annual budget of $4,000,000 and replacement reserve of $500,000.
gables,
that is fine too. That is why we have this blog to compare notes. If many naysayers haven’t pissed off so many home owners and investors and drove them off this site, you could have had a wealth of information from them. Instead you are mostly stuck here with wannabe home owners.
Nevertheless there are still some here who are parting with information. I will tell you what I know of my building. I want everyone else to do the same regarding their building.
The 1800 Club:
1. HOA 42.7 cents/sf/mo
2. Age of building: will be 2 years this December
3. Special assessments so far: None
4. Has Reserves: No. But they have collected $60,000 extra in the first 3 months of this year than they have spent which is lying in a reserve fund. They are not expecting things to change any dramatically anytime soon.
5. HOA delinquencies (last known): More than 90 days – 1 unit, More than 60 days – 10 units and more than 30 days – 10 units. But compliance is almost 100% when these units get a letter from the association attorney. That makes it a less than 5% maintenance delinquency at any given time which is very acceptable.
6. Any deficiencies in the building, structural problems, elevator problems or any other major issue that one should worry about in future: None as per all the independent engineering evaluations. Almost 2 years of living in it also tested its occupancy worthiness to the residents who are generally happy.
7. Issues that might prompt a small special assessment in the very near future: There are a few small issues, none of them critical, attending to which may or may not cost a maximum special assessment of 25 cent/sf altogether. But they are trying to attend to all these issues with out having to charge a special assessment. Even if they do assess, that amount is going to be a pittance, for eg. if you have a 1200sf flat, you would pay $300.
Barring a major hurricane damage (which of course applies to all of Miami and not just the 1800), the building is solid and secure and I am not looking at a major special assessment anywhere on the horizon.
I hope I have answered all your questions regarding the future prospects of my building. I hope others will do the same regarding theirs.
1 down and 49 more to go. But from my past experience, no one is going to take the effort to post what you are asking.
But you do not need to know all the 50 buildings before you buy. First step is to look for a great deal. Then check for all these things in that building. The management office will give you a lot of info. The rest you can ask the residents you will meet at the pool side, gym, lobby, elevators. Many of them will be more than happy to tell you their gripes. You can intelligently deduce if their gripes are something of a genuine concern (there are many leaks on walls in many flats) or to see if it is trivial (such as I hate the doorman).
No matter what numbers all you who post here we are now below even the Ace number of $125.00 and no amount of malarkey will change that.
We have Banks who will not loan, we have mass unemployment, mass job insecurity and a world wide recession that may not end until 2012 at the earliest. If we are able to walk away with $95.00 a square foot those of us who are still standing will consider ourselves lucky.
Ace we love you babe but your low mark of $125.00 is now being over shot. None the less you personally saved me at least $600,000.00 as I was of a mind to buy in 2006 until you came on the scean and convinced me otherwise. If ever you are in town Ace or is Peter your real name , do look up Odd & Sods for I’ll buy you dinner and all the Dom Perignon that you can drink.
Hat tip to the Ace least we forgot who first predicted the Miami downfall and crash.
I see no one in here calculating a 10% increase each and every year for the next five years as Citizens Insurance is now required to collect per the most recent Florida Legislature. Most HOA’s carry high windstorm deductibles in order to reduce their annual bill. Buildings with no reserves are gambling. Buildings with high deductibles are gambling. Some buildings are running what is pretty close to a Ponzi scheme with no reserves and high deductibles. Its like that commercial says – “Pay me now or pay me later”.
Bobby J
Is the $700,000. your building has in reserves for deductibles adequate a Cat 3 storm? Cat 4? Cat 5?
Anybody know what the management company charges yearly at 1800 Club?
What is your yearly insurance bill?
What is your Miami-Dade water and sewer bill?
AJ, thanks for the info. this is the type of data that helps make a more informed consumer. the more the buyer knows what he is getting into, the more likely they are to accept assessments down the road, simply because they can be adequately priced into the cost of ownership. all we want is value in our purchases.
I’ve been getting a lot of phone calls from people looking for great deals like unit 1002 at Jade. Hasn’t anyone realized that the asking price was $775,000 for that unit? It ended up selling for $375,000. I’m not sure what the full story was with that unit but it’s definitely not normal for a unit to sell at such a discount.
Lucas, more than likely an inside deal, which is also why you didnt have it posted on your Condo Deals Page and why we all will never see these units posted. Bank Rep or listing agent calls his brother in law in New Jersey and says you wont believe the price u can get at a Jade unit in Miami. Probably re-listed soon for $500,000.
Kramer,
Welcome to Miami!
The fact that there are even still flippers trying to make money this way tells me we are no where near bottom
Lucas,
Its that type of shady action that is keeping the market from bottoming and picking up big time. People will continue to stay on the sidelines, at least the average joe with an interest in buying a home, as long as the RE action is murky. Without transparent activity occurring, most folks are very uneasy about participating in the largest financial decision of their life. I hope the honest RE agents, such as yourself, try to actively shed light with regulators when shady actions appear to occur. The action may end up being legal, but self regulation will definitely help the industry as a whole to bring back confidence to the consumer. Right now the confidence is practically nonexistent.
sometimes the bank will list a property hoping to sell it close to the listing price then when that doesn’t work they will just drop the price drastically to get it off the books. When that happens those property wont be listed for more than a day or two max. that could be an explanation. Lucas I noticed that some of these deals were not that great a deal when they were first listed and many sat on the market for some time but people were able to negotiate good deal so the final sale price makes it onto your top 5. If people are looking to buy they should just put out offers on properties they like at a price they are comfortable with, when the bank counters just tell them you are not willing to go higher. Stick to your guns and be wlling to walk away and you migh get lucky and snag next month’s top 5 deal. Oh yeah having cold hard cash helps tool.
as MMT says, identify a REO prop that you like and a make a lowball offer. What have you got to loose. If the bank bites, you hit paydirt.
Because if you wait for that lowball offer to be displayed on the MLS and the condo deal page, there will be 100 others bidding for it and it wont be an attractive purchase anymore. The idea is to grab these before they go public. Kind of sort of like an insider deal.
Go ahead, if you are a serious buyer, pull out that check book and ask Lucas to put in a lowball offer to the bank for you. Hey you never know!
Lucas, you really should add a tab of just REOs. That would be immensely helpful, plus it would help your business, as that’s primarily what buyers are looking for these days.
WHy taxes so high on a $150K purchase?
Why property taxes $5,670 on the property One Miami? The sold price is only $150K.
I did a public records search and the building I’m currently trying to buy into just had a lis pendens filed for a foreclosure suit. It looks like all remaining unsold units are being foreclosed on. Does anyone know what this effectively means as it would pertain to my unit? And I guess I should probably pull out, right?
DJ, do you think that is what JCrimes was referring to when he told you not to buy in that building but he wouldn’t elaborate?
Maybe JCrimes can answer your question he seems to be knowledgeable.
I spoke with JCrimes privately over email, but I don’t want to comment on what he said as it was private.
I really don’t know what this realistically mean, but I’d imagine it can’t be good. I’m gonna talk to a real estate attorney asap.
DJ
If you are not buying one of those unsold units from the developer, then I don’t think it affects you at all. This is just one of the many cases that have been in the papers lately about lenders foreclosing on the mortgages.
In fact, this is generally good as it means that the units will change hands to someone who will pay HOA fees and sell more units through a bulk sale or other means, so the only negative is that it probably will affect pricing and values.
However, if you are getting a good deal on your unit, you should be fine.
DJ,
This is exactly the type of uncertainty i was referring to earlier which keeps many buyers on the sidelines. On the flip side, it is action during times of risk, like this, which most likely provides the best deals. But with much greater risk on the down side. Buying a condo in today’s market is not for the faint of heart!
Ed, thanks for the comment, that was my initial thought as well. The foreclosure is only on the remaining unsold developer units, so it would not affect my pending short sale, which I do feel is a good deal. Most likely if the new owner was able to offer the remaining units at or around the price I’d be paying for my sale, they’d probably find some willing buyers. I’m pretty worried about how that would affect the current owners who paid a lot more though, and whether they would be tempted to walk away, and whether the new owner would stay ontop of the building upkeep, etc.
It all comes down to the price you pay and for condos the stability of the HOA…..
During the foreclosure process, who will pay fees for all those months as the developer is AWOL?
My understanding is that if a bank forecloses Florida law limits their exposure on maintenance fees to no more than 6 months. The best example would probably be the building “Wind” in downtown Miami which after an approximate 40% closing rate Washington Mutual (Now Wells Fargo ?) foreclosed on the developer. Not sure how they handled it but would inquire with them. If im the bank and state law limits my exposure to no more than 6 months maintenance then the squeeze would have to come from elsewhere.
Can someone comment on Space o1 in North Bay Village? Stability of HOA? Any foreclosures, unsold units? Some general comments?
Your answers will be appreciated
I appreciate everyones comments on my situation. I was expecting to get an answer back on the short sale any day now (most likely an approval based on the fact that I have a strong cash offer), and was really looking forward to moving in. This is quite an unfortunate turn of events.
Gotta love journalists….
I was reading the SFBJ online today when I saw the following headline:
FAR: Florida home sales up again
The interesting thing is that once you read the article, this is what you read:
“In South Florida, Miami led the pack in volume with a 76 percent increase in the sale of existing single-family homes. That translates to 597 homes sold in May, compared to 339 in the previous same-year period.
In Miami, the median price for an existing single-family home fell 36 percent to $194,700 in May from $329,900 a year ago, but was up from April, when the median price was $177,000.
Miami also led in condo sales, which were up 36 percent to 571 units from 420 a year ago. The median price, however, was cut in half to $140,400 from $280,700 a year ago. However, it was up from April, when the median price was $133,500.”
Let’s analyze that data:
1) The condo sales price is incredible. Sales are up 36%, but sales are only 571/month which means that the current inventory is enough for several years at this absorption. However, the best piece is that prices are 50% less than a year ago!!!
2) The single family data is also a joke, since 597 sales for Miami is nothing. The pricing increase from April might sound good, but this is just a month to month and several economists have warned that this is not the right info to look at when analyzing trends. A 3 or 6 month average is much better.
BOTTOM LINE: Sales are starting to pick back up since the dismal last year, but this is only happening because of significant price reductions. Price reductions will continue as foreclosures get through the system and short sales are processed. 1 in every 3 sales is distressed, so unless you can get one of those, sit back and enjoy
monthly increase in average price of SFH is attributable to more higher priced homes changing hands.
lara
every unit at space has a massive friggin hot tub placed in the living room. it’s foolish looking and a bitch (i.e., expensive) to remove.
Florida law limits lenders to 6 months of fees or 1% of the original loan value, whichever is lower.
—
DJ — Sorry about the news at your building. These days, it’s probably tough to find a building that doesn’t have foreclosure problems. The questions I would ask are: What % of the building’s units are unsold and being foreclosed? What are the HOA fees and what’s the rate of delinquency? What % of the units are actually occupied (preferably, owner-occupied)?
One of the biggest problems, IMO, with a lot of these bulk foreclosures is that they can turn upscale buildings that were meant to be owner-occupied into glorified apartment buildings, so you need to know what you’re buying into. Are you getting a good deal in a great building that will still be a great building 2-3 years from now, or are you buying into a rental complex?
76% increase in single-family sales May 08 to May 09. But they fail to mention that the May 08 sales figures are about as terrible as ever. So 76% increase doesn’t mean shit.
Joe, 60 units out of 164 are being foreclosed on, or roughly 37% of the total units. As of now, with the developer still controlling the association, the maintenance fees are at about $480/month for the smaller floorplan and about $580/month for the two larger floor plans. I’m not sure what the delinquency rate is or what % of the units are owner occupied.
Tomorrow I’ll get a copy of the complaint from the courthouse and see what that says, and also call the sales office and try to get as much info as possible. Only problem is I don’t think I can believe a word that comes out of their mouths. We shall see…
Jcrimes,
Thank you for your response. Do you know anything else about the building? General health of HOA?
I just updated the Condo Deals page. Mainly just foreclosure for now. I’ll add short-sales and other good deals within the next couple of days.
DJ,
If the bank accepts your short sale offer but you change your mind, are you going to lose your 1% (I assume) deposit you put with the bank along with the offer?
I just read an article on Patrick.net that was quite funny, the jest of it was that a realtor was offered but refused a guaranteed hourly pay by a Buyer regardless if they bought the property or not. Her reasoning was that she was a PROFESSIONAL???? And asked the Buyer if he would expect a Lawyer or Dentist to work by the hour. Well quite frankly yes and in fact they do LOL. The difference being is they have a minimum of 4 years of college education whereas a realtor may or may not have even graduated high school.
Frankly I don’t know what all the fuss is about for I have never used a realtor in any of my 200 plus real estate transactions. I have and always will use a real estate Attorney, most of whom have a knowledge and a back ground in real estate that far surpasses any so called professional realtor. The fees I pay range anyway from $75.00 to $150.00 per hour dependent upon the transaction and on no occasion has any real estate deal ever cost me more that $3,500.00 which is tens of thousands of dollars less than an unqualified 6% er would charge.
Bottom line is do you own due diligence and research and with the advent of the Internet this is extremely easy to do. And as you the Buyer are required to pay for your own appraisal and home inspection why not hire you own at least this way they work DIRECTLY FOR YOU and NOT the SO CALLED BUYERS agent. While your at it, find your own financing as well for six percent of a S1,000,000.00 or $500,000.00 is a lot of money, just ask Donald Trump for he too will tell you that he has never used a 6% er.
Odds & Sods — I’m with you 100% on realtors and their commission structure, but are you talking residential or commercial transactions? As a buyer, I’d love to be able to cut the realtor(s) out of the deal and have the corresponding % reduced from the sales price, but realistically, 98% of the properties on the market likely are under contract with an r.e. agent/firm, and the realtors expect to get paid even if they didn’t lift a finger. Do people routinely go behind realtors’ backs in So. Fla. or are you referring to your own listings?
If the property that you are interested in is listed with a realtor then yes, you have no choice but to deal with these over paid charlatans. However, by eliminating the so called buyers agent you are paying only 3%commissionon instead of 6% and you can anegotiateiate this down also to 1% if the realtor is hungry and most are.
Joke of the day:
Why do sellers agents, buyers agents and sellers always insist upon neogioiateing with buyers in a room with no mirrows?
Answer: They don’t want you to see the “patsy.”
“However, by eliminating the so called buyers agent you are paying only 3%commissionon instead of 6% and you can anegotiateiate this down also to 1% if the realtor is hungry and most are.”
— This is interesting. I’m still on the sidelines and have never been a buyer in anything like this sort of down market, but I had never heard that eliminating the buyer’s agent thereby eliminates that 3% fee/commission. Where I’m from, the “overpaid charlatans” used to insist that if no buyer’s agent was involved, the seller’s agent got both fees.
Further, as I mentioned in this thread or another, I once had r.e. agents boycotting my condo because I had the audacity to list it with “only” a 7% commission rather than the customary 8%, so it had never even crossed my mind to eliminate the buyer’s agent AND try to get the seller’s agent to come down their fee. Very interesting, indeed. Thanks.
AJ, I’ve got 10% in escrow right now, but the bank won’t have access to it unless I release the funds. Basically, I’m in a position now whereI need to decide whether I want to take the offer off the table, or leave it on. I’m consulting with a few real estate attorneys at the moment.
… but even as prices drop, taxes and HOA fees are trending in the opposite direction. A lot of these Miami condos have monthly condo fees that equal or exceed a mortgage payment elsewhere in the country. I think it’s going to take a lot of years before all of the condo inventory is absorbed, and then HOA fees and taxes could end up causing another implosion — unless new, out-of-area buyers move into Miami. The current population/workforce obviously can’t come close to absorbing 10,000 to 20,000 condo units.
Oops … My last comment was re: Alejandro Diaz, not re: DJ. DJ snuck a reply in while I was typing.
DJ — Good luck deciding on your deal. Hope it works out for the best.
Joe, thanks bud! I’ll keep you guys posted on what’s going on.
Most REO agents are sold out of inventory, I believe prices over-corrected in some areas. You will see there were some very good deals that closed last month when Lucas updates his best deals page, more and more short sales are getting approved so it is wise to lowball them but most likely the bank will not hit your bid if it is under appraised value…. However if the Loss mitigator is simply servicing the note for a third party you might get a good deal. FHA financing for homes has very attractive rates, all of my REO homes have been receiving multiple offers and I usually end up getting highest and best offers from bidders. There are still 10,000 condos in downtown that need to get absorbed, even with the jump in pending sales that we have seen for the past 3 consecutive months it would take 5 years for the market to absorb the inventory. Currently in FL 11.7% of all mortgages are at least 30 days late on their payment (according to bloomberg article), Unemployment is over 10%
In the next 6-8 months we will actually see a Bank take over a building from a Developer, do heavy advertising and have a Huge Auction with low reserve to liquidate inventory. The First Bank to do this will probably sell out the building…. We will not see Foreclosures in the new buildings in Downtown as people would have to actually close and not pay their mortgage for a year for the Lender to repo. I look forward to seeing some Bulk Deals/Auctions on some of these buildings getting finished
Lara
don’t know specifics but judging on the age of the building (came online in the boom) amount of foreclosure/short sale activity, i would assume there are issue
i actually took a look at the building (frankly, condos in nbv have the best views imho). i like it…it’s just that the floorplans are not practical and will kill you at resale. in that area of the world, i’d spend a little more and get something at the avanti towhhomes. better area, great views (those units facing the water) and much better in terms of layout/lt sale appreciation. avoid the bayview lofts like the plague. place is falling apart.
Thank you so much , JCrimes. The views are incredible indeed but as you said the layout only for those who can design the space themselves and set up partitions. Space o1 does not have terraces. My personal feeling that terraces are very important(for me) but may be for other people it is not that significant.
Lara, just from looking at the pictures of Space 01, I don’t see how it would be very livable. The silly hot tub would be an issue, like JCrimes said, and also with the completely open floor plan you’d need to construct your own partitions to make bedrooms, etc. You wouldn’t really be able to install actual walls because the ceiling is exposed with ducts, etc, so to have walls you need to also add a full ceiling. I couldn’t image living in a place with no privacy at all. What happens when you have guests staying over?
DJ, Lara:
Space01 is definitely not for everyone. The design was intended to be a true loft style unit but had many flaws in it (the hot tub being the main one, not sure what the architect was )
Partitions in lofts are not such a big deal, as usually they don’t go all the way up. However, I have seen some cases where the exposed ducts do go through the wall but is no as nice. The problem is that the unit is very deep and it can create layout problems and inefficiencies. I also don’t like the fact that it’s an open corridor building.
I believe there are much better buildings in NBV
Any info on Harbour House in Bal Harbour? I know it was an older building that was redone. Any idea of the quality? Any info would be greatly appreciated!
Hugo P, thank you. I understand true loft feeling very well and for the designer it is a paradise because basically you have this space that you can play with. Some of these spaces when well creatively designed are amazing! As far as bath tub is concerned it is the matter of opinion, taste, unconventional thinking. Whether you like it or hate it.
In comparison to Icon Brickel Space01 is an easy task. Please tell me more about NBV. area, buildings. Also what attracts you there and what you do not like. Prices. I passed this area several times but never spent time to investigate it.
Thank you
As a reference to all of you who believe that a Buyers rep is not need in a transaction I have to throw my hand into the mix. As a buyers representative myself and a former developers representative for one of the major new buildings in town I have seen just what the so called “listing agents” do to initiate and push for a sale, most of it which is not true is what will be the next downfall and rise in Law suits-believe me I get a subpeona once a week.
If these buyers were prepared with a buyers representative then maybe just maybe they wouldnt have been so naive going into the deal, and taken the necessary time to do the diligence. This diligence so as to protect a buyer from making a mistake, costing them money, ie watching their back I feel is definately worth as you all cry…the 3% that we deserve. Now I am not saying that every buyers rep is as anal in performing the diligence as I am, and that some just wont-I have seen the disapointment in closing and taking deed only to realize you bought a false bill of goods atleast in your opinion. I have also been on the side of the seller (developer) who said to bad so sad and suit me…well get ready Miami, as Karen Carpenter sang “its only just begun”. Now I am not saying a buyers rep is for everyone what I am saying is that if you have any reservations, any fears, any apprehensions then yes definately you should be represented. If you are confident, understand the law, understand the market, understand the development, understand demographic trends, understand location values from out of state, understand Fannie mae’s HVCC as well as condo requirements for loans, understand managment companies and their strengths and weaknesses, understand TCO requirements and closings…should the swindler continue as I can go on and on…bottom line GET A BUYERS REP ITS WORTH THE MONEY!!!
In regard to Posts-
Space 01 is a waste of space and designer stupid-yes great view but no balcony and I am not one for my balcony being my bathtub
Harbour House-should crumble in the first cat 3 storm, as cost cuts, bancruptcy cut the quality in the finishe work…Can anyone say Chinese dry wall?
NBV all I say is why?? no beach, no good nightlife, no standout restaurants (Ok thai-and chains well not for moi; shooters on the bay ok for drinks yet food is just ok…), horrible commute to 95, a Police force that will get you for going 2 miles over limit, Ok for family, WSVN employees, and or a temporary resident if you have a boat out back as bay aces is priceless for us boaters-
And watch buildings as you know Lennar is involved in the Chinese dry wall case for their construction around the state. If you like the area look into Lexi as this building will be the standout as the developer was an honest man who always build a good product-
Condoswindler, if you’ve been following my posts at all, I’ve currently got an offer on a short sale at the lexi. I’m a little uncertain now that the note holder is trying to strong arm the developer out of the project, but we’ll see what happens. In regard to NBV, it was pretty simple for me. My office is about 4 miles away, its smack in the middle of biscayne and collins, which makes it easy to get just about anywhere, restaurants are decent, especially as you drive east on the causeway towards the beach, nice community feel to the area, and the views from the lexi are amazing.
Basically, I was looking pretty heavily into the downtown/arts district area but really didn’t see anything that really struck me. Then I checked out NBV and decided it would be perfect. I suppose it’s just a matter of personal preference, but I guess that’s the case with anything.
DJ-you are exactly what I am talking about as a local that is looking for an area that works, as can so appreciate the commute reality-and yes once cross the bridge onto the beach there is a “life” with many decent restaurants as I love Prima Pasta…
Strong arm the developer…Note do you kow who is in pursuit as I can sick my dogs on them…in what way in default??…I will contact and find out tomorrow as I have some issues with any strong arming against a “friend/colleagues” building and appreciate the news…lets see what can be done…Remember MIA its not what you know BUT who you know!!!-and if so inclined show me how to get in touch so that I can send you my recovery info from the inside-see how utilizing a Buyers rep with connections HELPS!!!!-as what we buyers reps dont post for free!!!LOL sorry all!!
A weak El Nino has already formed. It will reach its peak by this winter.
1. Miami, breath easy. This hurricane season is going to be a whimper. Thank god! Imagine an active Atlantic hurricane season along with a weak housing market. It would have been disastrous for us with increased insurance premiums and what not. It is all but given that we will have a milder hurricane season this year.
2. We in the North East will probably see no snow this winter. I will take it, especially after such a cold and bitter winter the past year.
3. Sadly The Pacific coasts will get slammed by hurricanes. As I do not live in Acapulco, I will breath easy.
4. There will be some severe drought in many countries in Asia and Africa. That is sad.
But I will raise a toast to an almost hurricane free South Florida this year. Cheers!
condoswindler, shoot me an email: [email protected]
DJ, condoswindler:
Why do you think the developer is being “strong armed”? In all of these foreclosures the cause is usually that the developer is in default on the note and the bank tries to protect their interest by foreclosing.
It has happened a lot and it will continue to happen as sales in these new buildings remain stalled. My take is that we will see a few of these in the next year.
All in all, this process is necessary in most cases to flush out the market as these units will most likely be sold at lower prices but the building will get occupied which will bring stability to the HOA.
condoswindler, Thanks for the info on Harbour House. I will stay away.
Ed, strong armed was probably a poor choice of words. I didn’t mean to make any infer anything other than what’s actually happening.
What’s your opinion on the situation that’s currently unfolding at the lexi? I’m really torn here because I love the unit I’m under contract for, and it was long process to find it, and it’s been a long process as the bank’s been evaluating the short sale. I certainly don’t want to start all over again, but then again, I also don’t want to buy into all kinds of future problems with the HOA, etc.
With regard to NBV, I have been renting in the 360 condo for the last 2 years. There are definitely some advantages to the location being the midpoint between other desirable destinations. The views are also great from most of the new buildings. Restaurants are not that interesting but plenty of good places a short drive away and there are few neighborhoods in Miami (Sobe and parts of Brickell/downtown) where dining options are more easily accessible.
Neighborhood aside, asking prices remain rather high for most of the new buildings. I would think that prices should be lower than on the beach or downtown for comparable units. There is also substantial oversupply with a number of just finished buildings standing completely empty (Eloquence, Cielo on the Bay, Adagio). Lexi is just over half occupied and the slightly older generation of buildings (Bridgewater, 360, Blue Bay Tower, Space 01) all have pretty high levels of distress. Blue Bay has had pretty much every unit enter delinquency and there have only been a couple of bank sales out the other end. Other buildings that I have looked into have 20-30% rates of default thus far on the units purchased during the bubble. Seems like there will be a large supply of condos in NBV for years to come.
DJ: Not sure on the Lexi situation as there isn’t much transparency on what’s going on. The lis pendens filing is from a new LLC against the original development company. The same LLC has been recorded as having been assigned with the remaining mortgage on the property. It seems like the other parts of the developer mortgage were either paid off or negotiated down to the lower amounts. This filing may just be a formality to transfer the ownership of the remaining units between LLCs.
condoswindler
lexi was scott’s first big condo project. not sure what history you’re going off of.
lara
i’m loft person and find the layouts at space to be good sans the hot tub. as you pointed out lofts are not for everyone, especially those that routinely have guests over or children. then again, considering the thickness of drywall in more traditional buildings, you ain’t getting much privacy in miami wherever you move.
as for partitions, there’s a lot you can do with the space. what i’ve seen done best is the large drapes locked up to the ceiling on rails (similar to the delano). two level of drapes looks great (one shear, while the other more opaque).
Petronius
Great information. Thanks.
Petronius
Great info on NBV. Right on. I would add that last time I checked, most of the buildings you mentioned had asking prices much higher than Lexi ($350/sf +), so I think form a value perspective, Lexi is a much better deal. Nice finishes, good sized balconies, great floorplans and amazing views (especially the corner units). Also, the property is not filled with a ton of uneccesary and expensive ammenities which we all know result in a high HOA fee.
DJ
As far as your specific situation: Like I said before, if you are getting a good deal on the short sale, then you should be OK. Prices might come down after the foreclosure process is done, but if you buy low enough you should be OK. I would look up the most recent sales there… If your are in the ballpark and you really like the unit, then stay with your offer. Just my personal opinion. Good luck
Ed,
Asking prices are pretty unrealistic throughout. All the buildings seem to have some if not most of the listings stuck at the 2006 price levels. There are individual units that are more realistically priced of course, most of which seem to be short sales. The problem is there aren’t too many transactions recently dated transactions in these buildings to work off as comps. The most recent that I could find that might be indicative of clearing prices are:
Bridgewater unit 2005 @ $205k or $175 per sqft.
360 unit 801A @ $215k or $169 per sqft
Blue Bay Tower units 1403 and 1203 @ $315k or $178 per sqft each
The problem with evaluating whether these are really good deals is the same as with the rest of Miami. Rents are dropping in NBV as well compared to the levels of the last two years. Taxes are still high on all these units since the assessed values are on average twice as high as recent transactions. Maintenance seems to be reasonable at the moment in these buildings but it is hard to be certain how secure the HOAs are with all the delinquencies still in process. With all the relatively comparable supply that will continue to be available in NBV in the coming years, I personally see no reason to rush into a purchase in this area.
Ed, Petronius, great info guys.
I’m sure everyone is sick of my posts about the lexi, so I’ll make this my last, but I did a bit of research, and it seems the LLC that assumed the debt on the construction loan, and that is now trying to acquire ownership of the unsold units, is under the unbrella of this company: http://ramrealty.org/
From looking into the company, I have to agree with what Ed said previously, and see this as a positive thing. This looks like a solid company that aquires distressed properties, improves and maintains them, and then tries to sell them off. I think they may be more successful than the current developer, as his sales have pretty much dried up, and they’ll probably try to improve the property and market it aggressively.
re: Space 01 and lofts in general
Drywall is cheap… the cost of putting up your own walls is not a big deal (esp. relative to the cost of putting in nice flooring). Plumbing can get expensive if you need to move around the tub though.
I like big rectangular lofts alot. If you do the layout right, you can make 2,000 sf feel like 2,500 sf. as opposed to most assymetrical layout condos I walk into that are supposed to be 2,000 sf and feel like 1,500 sf at best.
One large condominium complex in NBV is asking the court to enforce payments of rents directly to the building. Seems nobody is paying maintenance fees. They have to get somebody in to collect rents directly from the renter. It’s amazing the owners have no clue what is going on.
I know of another building in NBV where 20% to 30% are not paying fees.
Another building sold units to several people, only to turn around and run a rental building.
Condominium owners are lucky the Herald writers don’t know about condominium law. Otherwise this market would be finished in a month. We are lucky the national press hasn’t picked up these problems.
so lets not bait them….they have enough to write about these days-of course none of it true, as one day black next day white, and its all still very grey!!! and I am not talking about the rain…
To those of you still in the dark as to how you eliminate the so called “buyers agent”.
If the selling agent tells you that because you have no agent then they are entitled to the full 6% you simply tell them that you will present your offer to directly to the Owner with a maximum 3% commission, remember you are under contract to no one.
Furthermore, because the Law requires that realtors present “all offers” to an Owner, the selling agent she will wet her panties when you tell her that you will go direct to the Owner! The same method applies if you wish to reduce the 3% commision to 1% and the selling agent balks. You then present your offer directly to the owner pointing out the fact that their realtor refused to present your offer to them, at which point the Owner has two choices on both screnerios:
1st: Fire the selling agent for failure to follow the Law and for representing thier own best interest and not the sellers best interest as well as a slew of other unethical charges.
2nd: Pay the 2%, 3% or 5% shortfall from the agreed upon closing price from there own pocket. This is the only scenerio in which the seller does in fact pay the commision or at least the bulk of it.
Personally I’d prefer option One if I were the seller in either scenerio for not only would I fire the realtor I’d sue the hell out of Real Eataste Broker for whom the they worked.
I had a recent case in a foreclouse sale whereby the selling agent refused to deal with me unless she represented me. After telling her no on no less than 4 occassions and that I had real estate Attorneys that represent my interest we were forced to go directly to the Bank and she was promptly fired by the Bank for refusing to submit our offer. We closed the deal directly with the Bank at 0% commision. I dobht very much if the Bank in question will ever give that agent another short sale of foreclousure listing again.
Greed, lets talk about greed, greed is good. – Gordon Gecko
I have a unit once owned by Michael Jackson and I am raising the price !!!-needless to say its in foreclosure-BUT too bad so sad!!!
Shaq lost millions on his Miami Beach pad.
Listed at $32 million in 2005. Rumor has it he sold it for $16 million.
Bought in 8/2004 $18,800,000.
Gross Total Taxes: 2008 Taxes:
Ad Valorem 534952.87
Non Advalorem 12373.62
Total Gross: 547326.49
Massive slaughter. Real estate is a great investment.
Wild Bill — “Condominium owners are lucky the Herald writers don’t know about condominium law. Otherwise this market would be finished in a month. We are lucky the national press hasn’t picked up these problems.”
— Could you expand on this a little (or a lot)? Thanks.
Joe,
Chapter 718 is very cut and dry about budgets, reserves and maintenance. The Herald keeps writing about these building where maintenance fees are delinquent or nonexistent. Simply impossible to keep a building running without special assessments to make up for the lost income. You guys joked that I was being petty for bringing up water bills. Why can’t many building in Miami Beach even pay their water bill on time? The city actually has to work out payment plans with these stupid buildings because they cannot budget for water.
Any truth to the RUMOR that RENTER TOM bought a condo in Sunny Isles??????
Odds & sods, Most times the owners identity and contacts are closely guarded secrets of the selling (listing) agents. It is not possible to directly approach the owners most of the time, if that is the case, the agents will be out of business.
AJ — That seems doubtful. Owner/seller info. is readily available on the Miami-Dade Clerk’s website. I suppose some anonymous LLCs might be tough to track down, but otherwise, most of the owner-sellers are known entities.
Joe, yes that might be partly true. But the records only provide the owners mailing address. Never a telephone number or an e-mail address.
In this day and age, who actually contacts someone by snail mail anyway? That is why the listing agents have such a death grip over their 3%.
I have always hated this monopolistic system of a gatekeeper. In 2004, when I was buying a flat in Miami, the listing agent told me “if your offer is not the full asking price, I will not even submit it to the owner”. I know it is illegal, but I did not want to pursue the matter as during those frenzied times, who knows what if it would do any good.
And to compound the matter, my own agent threw a shit fit that I used my own bank to get a mortgage and did not use his recommended mortgage broker who wanted to sell me a bullshit ARM or interest only option. I told him to go fuck himself. He also did a few unholy things and I started hating all RE agents after that bitter experience. I so badly want to name that Arsehole but I will resist the urge.
That is why I feel there are only a few upright people in this business. Because they are so hard to find, I will only deal with the selling agent thereby, cutting my chance of encountering an arsehole RE agent by half. Both as a seller or a buyer. Just imagine, if there is no listing agent and the owner only has to pay 3% to the selling agent (who by the way does the most important task of finding and bringing a buyer to the table) , he can price the flats 3% cheaper. That is an instant $9,000 discount on a $300,000 flat. Imagine how much faster the flats would sell.
Question:
Is there a law (Florida or NY state) that says you have to be a RE agent to be able to represent yourself and benefit from the 3% in a 6% RE transaction?
If that is the case a $400 and a one week course and pass a silly exam is all that is between you and saving thousands of dollars, it is worth getting it IMO.
But if having a Realtor associate Lic. is not a requirement then why are more people not representing themselves?
AJ, I’m not sure I get your question. If you represent yourself, you’re either the owner of the property, or the one who’s actually buying the property. In either case, if there was commission, it would just go to you, so it would be a wash. Just negotiate a higher/lower price depending on what side of the deal you’re on.
DJ, most consumers are not good with math. You assume too much when you think either the buyer or seller can understand the commission can be properly absorbed into a modified sale price, where everybody is happy and benefit from keeping another hand out of the cookie jar. The peoples money skills are quite poor, hence the current financial predicament we are in today.
gables #133, spot on.
DJ, My question is exactly that. If you are not a licensed RE agent, and you are selling a flat, you can list it yourself and save yourself 3% commission that would have otherwise gone to the listing agent. Is that allowed by law?
Second, if you are a buyer and approach the listing agent directly with out going through an agent, can you benefit from the 3% that would have otherwise gone to the buyers agent? Is it legal to represent yourself? That 3% benefit could be in the form of a cash back at the time of closing or a reduction in the sale price.
AJ, you are an idiot.
jeez..i was looking to buy something in brickell but after reading all this…maybe i’ll just rent and keep loading up the 401k.
Joey Myers – Not sure where such a “rumor” came from since I haven’t seen a post with that…..but if you’re curious, just ask. Nope, haven’t bought anything yet. There are a few that I would consider at the right price…..no rush though. A year later and most buildings are the same or worse…some much worse. Glad I waited that’s for sure. No reason to be reckless with that kind of money…
AJ, you are an idiot.Sure, FL law requires you to sell through an agent and pay them 3% and it is illegal to represent yourself. If convicted, 10-20 yrs in the state pen.
Go back to the UK or in the alternative try to get a grasp on the US legal system because right now you are obvioulsy clueless but continue to provide commentary and advice on this site that is worthless.
Maybe this is real, maybe it’s a scam but seems pertinent to the recent discussion.
http://www.rebate-realty.com/
Problem is though, if you try to “skip” having a traditional seller’s agent, many buyer’s agents will tend to blackball/ignore your property if they have a choice.
10 years from now, it probably won’t have much of an effect as I tend to think people will be bididng directly for homes from an iPHONE app lol; but right now, I’d still say most buyers rely on a buyer’s agent to find a property so getting your property blackballed could really cramp your chances especially when selling a house.
When selling a condo, I think getting blackballed will matter much less as it’s much easier for a buyer to find your condo if they are looking at your building irrespective of being “filtered” by a buyer’s agent.
Lucas, your updated condo deals are absolutely awesome!
Does anybody heard something about the “chinese drywall” issues?
This one is for all the AJ’s out there in the world…. 🙂
http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2009-06-26
Post # 129 is correct and has no one ever heard of overnight Fed Ex or did you think he was Britney’s ex husband. Besides which if you’ve done your homework you’ll have a copy of the mortgage from the Bank which is public information and contains everything you need to know in order to contact the owner.