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This past week, I had the opportunity to take a very extensive tour of 900 Biscayne Bay. I couldn’t wait to see if 900 Biscayne Bay held up to its high expectations. I took a ton of pictures that day and wanted to share them with everyone. Above, you see the nice water feature that greets you as you drive into the valet area at 900 Biscayne Bay.
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The lobby at 900 Biscayne Bay is two stories. The first story is for guests entering off the street while the second story welcomes those entering through the valet area. The grand spiral staircase at 900 Biscayne Bay, in the photo above, takes you to the second level.
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The Infinity-edge, resort-style pool at 900 Biscayne Bay was beautiful. I’m sure residents will make full use of the large bar behind the pool while sunning themselves as well. There’s also a fire pit and hot tub available on the same level.
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The lap pool was closed, so unfortunately I wasn’t able to get some laps in while my clients were talking about the great amenities that 900 Biscayne Bay has to offer.
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Another great water feature pictured above. This is the entry-way to the amenities found at 900 Biscayne Bay shown in the pictures below.
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Here we have the theater room at 900 Biscayne Bay. It’s the best theater room that I’ve ever seen in a condo building in Miami. It has a 153 inch screen and seating for 35 people. I doubt many people will actually make use of this room but it’s still quite impressive to have in your building.
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Many of the rooms found on this level at 900 Biscayne Bay come equipped with the above technology. Mount your iPod and enjoy the sounds of your own tunes throughout the room.
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The club room at 900 Biscayne Bay with a grand piano and kitchen.
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The conference room at 900 Biscayne Bay.
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The entry-way into the men’s and women’s spa at 900 Biscayne Bay which is each equipped with a steam room, sauna and hot tub.
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Tell me that it doesn’t look inviting. This is the hot tub in the women’s spa at 900 Biscayne Bay. I’m hoping that this isn’t the last time that I get invited into the women’s spa at 900 Biscayne Bay. In my mind, I already had my shoes and socks off, but unfortunately the tour wasn’t over.
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Another shot of the women’s spa.
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The fitness center at 900 Biscayne Bay was a nice size. It wasn’t overly impressive but it had plenty of free weights, machines and cardio equipment. I would have preferred a view of the bay to the east, however.
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I took a look at about 3 condos at 900 Biscayne Bay that day. Here’s a shot of one of the kitchens with dark cabinetry. Another kitchen I saw that day had beige colored cabinets.
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Here’s an east view from one of the condos I saw at 900 Biscayne Bay. I think this was a shot from the 34th floor.
Overall, I felt that 900 Biscayne Bay exceeded my expectations. I think Pedro Martin and Terra Group delivered an outstanding condo development. Of all the new condo buildings that I’ve been in that have been completed within the past three years in Miami, 900 Biscayne Bay is on an entirely different level. The quality of the building is unsurpassed of the new condo buildings that I’ve seen. I haven’t been in Asia yet but I think that will be the only other recently finished condo building in Miami that may be able to measure up to 900 Biscayne Bay. The quality does come at a price, however. Expect to pay more than you’ll find at Marina Blue or Ten Museum Park, but like I said, the quality is unsurpassed.
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Who do I get a loan from for this GORGEOUS CONDO? I have a 70% DTi ratio and my FICO is 590. That should be enough to secure 1 million dollars with 120% LTV right? I will be using the cash to make my payment so I can flip this place for triple the money in 3 months! WHOOO HOO!
Flipping condos pays WAY BETTER than that stupid hospital job I have. I wish I didn’t spend all that money and time and effort earning a worthless degree. Question is, who are all the poor suckers that DON’T flip condos for a living?!
How is that an infinity edge pool? Or maybe the photo doesn’t show the infinity edge????
The top picture of the pool shows an infinity edge! The second picture is the lap pool.
ALWAYS BEEN MY FAVORITE. 900 BISCAYNE IS AN AWESOME BUILDING… LOCATION SUCKS BUT WITH A BUILDING LIKE THAT THERE IS NO NEED TO LEAVE THE PREMISES
Love the water features….Finally a condo builder thinking outside the box. But what were they thinking placing the gym on the south side with no bay view ?!?!
Nice building! What are 1 bedrooms going for these days? I only see 2 + beds listed.
DA – I consider an infinity edge pool one where you look at the pool and the edge fades into the background such as next to another body of water giving the illusion it is all part of one body of water. This one doesn’t do that….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_pool
I like 900 Biscayne above everything else in the area. The ammenities are top notch as well, this is what you should expect to get on other buildings with high maintenance costs.
Looks nice although I’m not big on “spas” in a condo… I think everything else came out great. Hope some Segafredo/Novecento type places move into the area to give the area a nice vibe. It’s got the buildings, now it needs a soul.
JL
you’re mistaken…park west has tons of character/soul. just last week, i was accosted by three bums at the BP next to TMP. sadly, i did not see my old friend…the guy who took a poo next to TMP several months back. guess he found a new spot.
900 looks nice. hell, all of these buildings look nice. but the problem is, and will continue to be, you can’t build luxury in a neighborhood that isn’t worthy of it. continuing my story about the BP from above, i saw a girl walking her dog around TMP that night (note, she stayed within 50 feet of the entry door at all times). curious, i asked her if she lived in the building (yes – renting from an investor) and what she thought. her response included “nice building”, “nowhere to walk to” and “dangerous.” this is my point – the end users who could afford a place at 900 would say screw it, and instead look on the beach. the stretch on collins starting from 40th going up to sunny isles provides more than enough options at new buildings that are just as competetive on price and offer a far superior location than 900.
I was able to confirm that Gardner’s Market has signed a lease at 900 Biscayne Bay.
That should definitely help the area. I live in the grove and I really like how they opened up a fresh market a 2 blocks away from my building, I stop there to get dinner after work a couple of times a week.
DA – I thought an infinity edge pool is where the pool edge falls off into the horizon which gives the illusion that it goes on forever esp if it is against the background of a large body of water….it looks like it is one body of water. This isn’t that. I don’t know what you call it, but it ain’t an infinity edge pool in my book unless the other edges create that effect. See wikipeida
Interesting from CNN and Money Mag:
Miami, FL
12-month forecast: -24.9%
Median home price: $329,000
One year price change: -9.8%
Five year price change: 94.8%
Prices forecast to hit bottom:
April-June, 2010
Change in foreclosure rate: 370%
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/moneymag/0805/gallery.resg_losers.moneymag/index.html
HI RENTER TOM.What’s happening with price’s down there now?I’m up in New York and still hoping that price’s are DROPPING the way thet were.Please let me know, and by the way how is SUPER SUNNY ISLES??? All the best
hey allinvest – I have been monitoring things while I’m down here in Sunny Isles Beach. The third Trump Tower is topped off now and a lot of progress is being made on the second tower too to finish the exterior and interior…..not very many lights on at all in the first Trump Tower…. the one valet guy out front looks pretty darn bored out of his mind each time I walk by…… Solis is on it’s 10 floor and will block a lot of views going south if you’re north of it since it is being built around 55 stories straight up right on the property line…. Jade Beach (or whatever those two towers are called) is busy with construction workers and will look nice when done. The only buildings on the beach that show a good number of lights on at night are the 3 Oceania towers. Turnberry must have occupancy in both towers albeit not more than 10% lights ever on. A lot of inventory on MLS is still there 120 days later and more rental units keep being listed with some pretty darn good prices in my opinion (really great deals for off season rentals). When are they ever going to open that pier I’ll never know….. The St. Tropez is still being built and will be nice but who will buy? The busiest place on the beach remains the Newport Beach Resort. So many luxury units on the beach that I have to believe people will be getting desperate in the later part of the year…. people still seem to think they can hold on to pretty high prices but they just don’t seem to be selling….and still a ton of rentals available too. Good weather….am waiting for the big price drops this year before considering any purchase and will monitor inventory levels too……. Hope that helps.
Dear Mo,
The secret is SAVING. You can have any kind of job, but if you plan and be careful with your money, you can buy the dream home of your choice. Do not be bitter. You can still get there. But for you to be having a FICO score of 590 shows that you have not been responsible with your money. It is a good start to earn a better credit rating than that.
I bought my first dwelling in the united states in NYC when I was just making $40,000 a year in 2001. A second home in Miami in 2004 and my salary was $60,000 a year. These salaries are not spectacular by any standards or any region. Probably you are making as much as that or more.
The only saving grace is that I was always willing to put 20% down due to my high savings (because I never spend $4 on Starbucks coffee like many millions of stupid Americans when I can get an excellent cup of joe for a $1 anywhere) and my credit score always hovered around high 700’s (I like to pay my bills on time and keep my debt low). So if you discipline yourself a little bit, you can get a home of your dreams anywhere. If not, you can always have the good memories of the $4 coffee, $23 Martini at Setai or a $2000 vacation you took the past year.
Ordinary working class people like me do not buy properties because we inherited some money. It is because we did some sacrifices and denied ourselves certain unnecessary pleasures, with out which many Americans cannot liveby. So stop being bitter and start being determined.
Superlative building I must say. Everyone who saw inside has nothing but praise for 900 Biscayne. I heard Daddy Yankee bought a unit there (not that it would make any difference to me).
Hi DLR,
I totally agree. The gym should have faced the bay, especially given their location advantage.
The best views of any gym I have seen is from the 1800 Club. Quantums Gym does not have views either.
Lucas,
These buildings barely have enough parking for residences & visitors; where will clients of Gardener’s park?
Lucas,
How can I see your other pics of 900?
Check out:
http://www.angryrenter.com
I have to agree…no bailout. Let the prices fall!
Thank you renter TOM.I really appreciate the update.Like you I am waiting for a DEAL.I’m probably not looking at spending as much as you…however this is only an occasional residence for us.8-12 week’s a year would be heaven.I was thinkinking 300K max. I don’t really need ocean front,but would like a nice 2/2 in a nice building/with parking.What do you think?? I was originally looking at a loft in Aventura.Please give me your thought`s BUD. Thank you.
Lucas, how windy was it up there on the pool area. I know its pretty bad in a lot of this new buildings (blue, TMP, one Miami). I see a lot of ripples and moving palm trees.
ctvlateta,
That day wasn’t windy but I know exactly what you mean.
allinvest,
I would be surprised if a 2/2 in 360 condo in North Bay Village isn’t sub 300K very soon. That’s a building you might want to keep on your list. Nice building and views, immediate neighborhood is crap., but very close to everything.
When hurricane season comes around, I wouldn’t be surprised to see some vortex develop where the palm trees and furniture get catapaulted through that breezeway cutout in the middle of the 900 building. That would be a youtube video worth posting, 900 furniture landing on the AA Arena.
Seriously though, if you aren’t used to S FL weather, you’ll be in for a shock how these wind patterns wrap around large buildings. You could feel 10-20 MPH on the street, and that hole in the middle of the building could see 60 MPH. If you’ve ever walked through the breezeway during hurricane season underneath the center tower at the Flamingo, you know what I mean. Hope they had some MIT guys figure out that hole in 900 or you might see bikini tops flying off the pooldeck area. On the other hand…
It is an “infinity edge” what you are not seeing is it merging with a larger body of water…but the fact that the “troughs” that catch water are underwater and pump the water back into the pool technically qualify it as an infinity edged pool.
Oh silly DA (just kidding), that is a perimeter overflow pool, not an infinity edge pool:
Negative Edge Pool
Negative edge pools are getting more common and require an expert to build. They are also referred to as infinity swimming pools or infinity egde pools. These are designed to look like the pool extends all the way out to the horizon. The mechanics and engineering of infinity pools cannot be compromised.
Perimeter Overflow Pool
This would be a pool where the water level in the pool is the same as the top of the decking. Around the pool perimeter is a channel or notch that the water drains into creating a visual masterpiece. It looks like a big mirror lying on the ground. Very upscale!
Great building. Bad location. The traffic around this building sucks for all those Heat games and concerts.
Side note…
I was outside the 900 sidewalk area last week for about 5 minutes. In that time, 2 different bums came up for money. I would hate to have been there at night.
Building looks great, BUT
-Traffic around that area sucks (espc during Heat games)
-access to freeway is bad
-bums everywhere
-area will take at least 3 years to develop
-wouldn’t want to be walkin around at night
-would rather buy something on Brickell or safer area along biscayne
BC,
Get a gun and gun license. Very safe area when your packing heat. Also, stun guns are effective in the area, no permit needed.
Nobody ever posts street level photos or neighborhood photos of this area for foreign investors. I wonder why?
You cannot even walk more than six blocks to the west w/o being in Overtown.
For the foreign investors I will save you the trouble.
http://www.overtown.us/OT1205Pics/index.htm
The building look nice but thsi building started sellign at the boom hype so it was already overpriced. Now it’s not worth as much and prices should be dropping as they are in TMP and MB. By the way, TMP appears to have it gym finally built after a year. The pool deck is ok different but the units atleast the 1 bd and the 2bd on the west side are WAY overpriced and really not that great in a layout and very small. Only the east side units are decent but those are overpriced.
Another thing to tak enote of these so called high end building was by Paramount Bay the other day and saw something very interesting. ..soem of the balconies goign up were metel bars like the cheap buildings have such as 1800 Plaza and city. I though tit was supposed to be all glass balconies across the board and do see alot of metel railings liek old buildings have was a shocker for a buildign that was trying to sell at $700+ I woul dexpect thsi bldg when done to drop like a rock!
Kind o freminds me of the Vue in Brickell half with Glass Balconies and half with Glass.
Makes me to believe that $$$ may be an issue.
anyone have any feedback or input?
Wouldn’t be surprising if that’s true. Have you followed the Shenanigans going on with Cynergi on this blog?
Here’s the big problem. Marble countertops, Stainless Steel, wood floors, nice views etc. only add full value in an up market. In a down market, people buy on price alone so it’s not surprising to see developer’s strip out a building. The realization is hitting that you’ll have a much better chance selling a cheap bare condo than an upscale condo. I’m sure a lot of these guys are expecting massive walkaways, so why not deliver as little as you can if the contract holder is almost certain to walk regardless. Then, as the developer you might be able to sell in bulk to a “genius” bulk buyer on price.
Renter Tom, You are getting way too technical on a term loosely used and thrown around by developers because it sounds upscale and sexy, take a chill guy.
My point is, descriptions need to be accurate. Like saying a home has wood floors when it is really pergo. Things get overhyped on the upside, not the downside.
Wild Bill-
You are correct. But its not just 6 blocks away. In reality, this area is really bad just 1 block away. All of those bums and drug dealers filter out of that Metrorail station directly behind 900 Biscayne.
Just a few comments:
(1) The real estate price bottom (at least in real dollar terms) is years away. In nominal terms, it will probably hit in 2010, not this year or next, but the rate of decline will ease next year compared to this year. Markets like Chicago will follow the rest of the country albeit not to the extremes of FL, CA and Las Vegas. Peak prices may come back in 2015…it is anybody’s guess, but a range of 2012-2020 is reasonable (I hope it doesn’t go beyond 2020!).
(2) The high end market is already showing weakness as “rich” people don’t want to put their money into a declining asset and watch 20%+ disappear. The wannabe’s are out of the market too.
(3) The pool of potential buyers is getting smaller, not larger, as the supply continues to grow and grow. People buy homes with financing, even a lot of “rich” people, and bank loans are getting much more difficult to obtain (esp. in Florida!) with full documentation requirements and large downpayment (at least 20% in the markets where PMI is pretty much no longer being readily issued). The large downpayment requirement will be one of the major causes of continued slowdown in home purchases. How will you pay for it???
(4) The upcoming wave of option ARM resets will hurt people since many people would like to change to a fixed rate mortgage but few are able to refinance their mortgage…..AND many have second mortgages, HELOCs and the like that they would like to consolidate into one fixed rate but can not. Welcome to the end of the line in the housing debt trap. There is nothing wrong with owning a home, it is the DEBT that one takes on that is the problem right now and allowed people to get into more home then they could afford. Banks aren’t willing to lend as easily and get burned after realizing all of these huge, historic losses. There is plenty of liquidity out there but what bank wants to take over an ARM and HELOC for 120% of the appraised value and have the owner walk away later??? By continuing to allow the home asset to be used as collateral against ever larger loans, banks have essentially been making unsecured loans on what they thought was a secured asset that is worth less and less. So now, more people are treating their home debt like they do with credit card debt…being reckless and walking away with no skin in the game and taking the credit hit instead of continuing to be a debt slave. Banks will never return to those lending standards. The best hope is to get banks (or any mortgage holder) that currently hold a mortgage to refinance loans already on the books to refinance their existing mortgages into fixed rate mortgages to mitigate their total loss (once they completely get out of denial).
(5) Until supply comes down substantially, home pricing will continue to decline and in some markets prices will decline BELOW construction and land costs. Once that happens, then new home construction will continue to decline and decline and decline which will help reduce supply. It will be a long drawn out process. Homebuilders are in for a very long home building depression esp. those that depend on volume construction.
It is a matter of supply and demand. The funny money of easy financing (with low interest rates and home appreciation rates far exceeding mortgage interest rate which essentially made it that you were being paid to own as much housing as you could) is gone gone gone. Half the demand is gone and not coming back anytime soon. Supply is up up up. This will be a VERY long drawn out process for much of the US and esp. in the bubble markets.
NO BAILOUTS by the government. Such programs will only cause others who are upside down but able to afford their house to consider not paying and walking away since that may be in their best interest resulting in a collapse of home prices. It is bad enough at the level we are at without piling on. Best to encourage and assist in loan term renegotiation into low interest fixed rate mortgages that are assumable for the next buyer (with lender approval).
Renter Tom –
The high end ($1M+) waterfront condo market in South Beach isn’t showing “weakness”. Check out the closings of condos for more than $1M during the last couple of months at Apogee and Continuum (and Murano at Portofino, Il Villagio and Setai).
Renter Tom I don’t know what your problem is. All you have to do is buy a 45 magnum and your protected. You can walk anywhere around this building, even walk your dog safely. Easy solution
Samson – The high end IN CERTAIN NEIGHBORHOODS (whether that is SoBe, NYC, etc.) will be the last to fall. Overall, in the US, the high end is getting hit though. No property will be immune just like all properties pretty much rose during the bubble.
Mo – Are you serious or just joking? I can buy most anything, including SoBe, in cash. But I worked hard for my $ and am not going to be reckless. I have been looking for a place to buy for several months but choose to rent for 1/2 the price….I’ll wait for the idoits to get taken to the cleaners then buy when the prices drop. Hopefully, you’re heavily invested in FL housing, since I’ll wait for one of your’s after you go bankrupt.
RenterTOM.
You are 90% correct, but the fact about peak prices coming back make me giggle like a school girl. lololol.
Don’t know what is so hard to understand. Only reason prices went so high is because people were buying knowing they can sell it to the next greater fool for more money and so on. Eventually prices got so high that no greater fools came along and the bubble popped.
Peak prices will never come back. Ever.
well… when median income of miami rises to the level that can afford a 375K 1 bedroom then we will see peak prices again…
Based on wages though that won’t be untill 2035 or so.
When will people get it… Real estate will no longer be viewed as an investment for the next 2 generations. It will just be viewed as a place to live.
And only end users will be buying for years to come.
The beach isn’t immune to this fall as well. Look at Murano Grande. 2 bedrooms are down to $600,000. There wasn’t anything less than $900,000 12 months ago.
They will eventually hit to around $400,000.
Christopher@HousingFEAR – Talking about peak prices (I meant in nominal dollar terms, not real dollars) and I was also referring to the US overall, not Miami, South Florida in particular. The Miami market will have a longer drawn out process then say Chicago. If Chicago goes down 25% that will be a lot! If South Florida goes down 50% that will be a lot too! Overall, the return to the peak nominal dollar pricing in the US will be 2012-2020….depends on how large the drop is at the bottom (hence the large range). I have found the whole thing fascinating since I am from the midwest and our price run up was very mild.
Mo – LOL, now I know you’re joking. Did you see the website angryrenter(dotcom)? It is good and makes good arguments against any bailout.
But seriously, yeah Tom, I went to the link and signed it. I also signed for like 10 people in my family.
By the way, although I am renting in S. FL, I still own a home in the midwest… will sell it though within the next 12 months or so.
Of course real estate is an EXCELLENT investment people! Look at Donald Trump, he’s only been bankrupt like 2 times….errr, okay, 3 times…..oh wait, he might have to declare bankruptcy again, but after that he should be good. So only 4 times has he had to declare bankruptcy! I mean who else can say that? I might have to declare bankruptcy again if this condo thing doesn’t pan out…but the premise is solid. I just failed at the execution. If I would have bought now, then I could have held out until prices start to shoot up again. I think prices should turn around on June 23. Why June 23? Well, isn’t that the summer solstice?
Hey RENTER TOM you know that guy MO??? That’s really KEVIN TOMLINSON using a phony name on here.KEVIN TOMLINSON seem’s to be using different name’s to SHOOT HIS BIG MOUTH OFF!!!!!!!!
SEE what I mean MO………I mean KEVIN TOMLINSON won’t have the ball’s to comment NOW that he’s been caught RED HANDED using an alias on this blog. He dosen’t know what to say or do. Hi KEVIN
anyone know anything about the Fort Lauderdale market??
If you see mosquito fish in any of the pools in these new condo buildings, here is why: lol
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120897815466039041.html?mod=hpp_us_inside_today
Wheeler Dealer, I am an expert at the Ft. Laudi market. Ft. Laudi is what people in the know call it! RIGHT NOW IS THE BEST TIME TO BUY! DON’T WAIT UNTIL MONDAY CAUSE ALL THE DEALS WILL BE GONE!!!!
Renter Tom- Prices will fall well below 50% off from peek, if you look hard enough you will see 50% from peek already now. The market may very well over correct within the next 2 years where one will find truly great bargains. Once rents can cover at least mortgage, tax’s, maintenance and insurance with a 20% down pavement that’s when I’ll re-enter the market. We are still a long ways away before that happens especially since in the coming 1-2 years rent will be abnormally low due to supply/demand it is slowly becoming renter’s paradise but that wont last forever as prices come down and rents go up it will once again be more logical to buy. We’ll see how this pans out.
Wheeler, I have been following Ft. Lauderdale condos for awhile. There is a lot available and many have been on for a long time. Foreclosures are starting in the big buildings, Las Olas River House has many units that have never been occupied (since 2004) and resale prices are at about 2004 levels or 40% from peak. Related closed on all the Beach Club units but a few foreclosures there since.
Thank you BILL.I will be checking out the area closer.I don’t think it’s as active as MO is talking. Do you??I thought thing’s were pretty quiet down there right now.
Real Estate may not be an “investment” in the US right now, but not many things are. In emerging markets real estate is still excellent investment!! people dont need to invest in real estate to make millions but to provide security for their millions!! once the market stabilizes and this freefall stops people will want to secure their liquidity into real estate again! The billions being made in emerging markets will also find their way back here as people want alternate areas to buy secure realestate in a democratic environment! If the oil price continues to rise a lot of the oil exporting economies will continue to have more money than they know what to do with, some of that money will find its way back to the US there arnt many economies in the world that can absorb so many billions!
bc – the murano grande for $600k doesn’t look direct ocean view or bay view to me.
Many of you miss the point looking for the market to come down lower. The premium units in buildings already open are selling. If you think the market is going lower then throw out your lowball offer and see if it sticks. But don’t waste time waiting when the higher floors, better views sell.
samir, did you goto IUSB by any chance? I knew someone in Indianna with the same name…
Wow, looks like everyone here likes to be contributing to a one sided story. God forbid anyone has a different opinion. Great to see another anonymous poster with an anonymous posting. You’ve already proven my point. I thank you.
Lucas – I have never had anything bad to say about you and I consider you as a great agent but it looks like everyone here posting constantly negative comments consider themselves to be in some way your #1 fan and having the right to either speak for you or deter other people from contributing to this blog. typical real estate con agent – Incredible how you overlook that many of the agents and brokers in this town run around in the same circles. While I don’t know whether Lucas endorses or doesn’t endorse your opinion I can tell you that your comments deteriorate relationships in the real estate community.
umer ahmad – no sorry
Samir Patel-
That Murano $600,000 unit previously sold for $1.1 Million.
The one above it, listed now for $674,900, previously sold for even more than $1.1.M.
Prices higher up are falling as well.
Yes prices in top buildings have fallen as well but that unit should have never sold for $1.1 Million in the first place. Unobstructed views psf should not be compared directly to city views psf. Just as such not everyone in Murano Grande with a premium view will be selling or listed for sale at the same time. If the economics work for the individual it is still a great time to buy. Much better time than last 2 years to go shopping. Oh wait I’m sorry I didn’t get approval to post that positive comment.
wheeler dealer,
Fort Lauderdale definitely seems to have come down faster than Miami. I don’t think it reflects the eventual bottoms, I think Lauderdale is just 1 year ahead of the curve right now. Lucas made a point of more foreigners buying in Miami which I think makes sense for some of the support we see in Miami. But on the flip-side, I think much more supply is still yet to come in Miami vs. Lauderdale so I suspect the eventual drops will even out.
Samir,
No, I don’t agree with real estate con agent’s comments. I don’t tolerate commentors bashing others or calling people names for the sake of doing so. Some of these people obviously have too much time on their hands.
Lucas ,whatever your doing,it seem’s to be working well.You have a GREAT BLOG here.Keep up the good work .You’ll alway’s get a few a%&**^$ ‘s making negative comment’s .
Regarding price stability on the Beach. Prices have been coming down steadily on Condos South of 5th and on houses on the water. There may be a perception that South of 5th or RE on the water will hold but that’s just a fleeting notion based more on propaganda than reality.
Does anybody remember the collective RE mantra from 3 years ago? South Florida is immune to the RE downturn because we are South America’s capital… That was just brilliant.
What was the collective RE mantra 2 years ago? The mantra was the problem was just residential and not commercial. Commercial RE prospects were as strong as ever and getting stronger… Ooops
If you have every realtor repeating any 1 idea, it sounds like fact, until the bottom drops out. You can brainwash enough “smart money” buyers to prop up any specific area of Real Estate, but the game eventually ends.
1 year ago, the mantra was Very High-End Real Estate and the Russians and Brits are coming… Oops again (as the Sotheby’s auction results showed).
This year, it’s Condos on the water/condos in SoFi.
It’s ironic. This collective RE mantra still works. Every realtor I run into tells me the smart buy is South of Fith and I even have friends/associates wondering out loud if that is a safe place to buy now. SoFi and SoBe condos on the water is this year’s game. It’s no more immune to the overall RE market than anything else.
Here’s the problem. All the low to mid high end construction is going to bring down buildings like Brickell Icon and Epic and 900 and Everglades etc. Any buyer looking at Icon South Beach or Murano Grande or Murano or Portofino will give a long hard look at those buildings on the west side of the Bay. Whether you are east of the bay or west of the bay, if you are on the bay, the prime view is bay view. When those new Brickell bay-view condos are completed in a year, you are effectively doubling the competition for the direct bay view and you will be comparing modern new construction on the West side versus 5-10 year old High End condos on the East side. The bay view on the Brickell side is going to be directly depressed by the pricing drag from the overall Brickell condo supply.
Personally, if Related delivers on their plans, Icon Brickell should be a much nicer place to live than Icon South Beach and I would take Icon Bricklell over Icon South beach in a heartbeat on a same $ per sq foot basis. The problem with that (for Icon South Beach) is that Icon Brickell is not going to be able to sell at where Icon South Beach is priced now so it (along with Epic et al) is going to drag down the bay side SoFi condos directly. In SoFi, you can’t walk to anything anyway, so you are talking about a 3 min cab ride to Lincoln road versus an 8 minute cab ride from Icon Brickell. It’s meaningless. However, the views from Icon Brickell will be nicer than the views from Icon South Beach as you will be able to get a view of the Bay, then South beach, then Ocean if you are looking from the Brickell side.
So what happens when the bay side Brickell supply comes online in a year?… SoFi Bay side waterfront will get depressed dramatically. And guess what? That will have a big impact on Continuum. A buyer is going to ask themselves, why am I paying so much more for an Ocean view when I can get a great bay view for so much less 5 blocks away? Real Estate is relative. This same rationale will then affect the Setai when people start seeing Continuum going down and with W coming online and more indirectly from Canyon Ranch etc.
People will have their preferences, but nobody will choose an area irrespective of price. Real Estate is relative. Low end declining drags down the middle which drags middle high which drags high end….
Samir,
Have to agree with you …
If there is a postive comment made by someone, it is immediately shot down by the majority in this blog …
Same people posting the same comments on different subjects …
The information provided by Lucas is great; the negativity is boring….
JL…excellent commentary.
JGM…about negativity, look at the housing market. It is slow motion wreck right now and getting worse. I think the comments on this blog may appear to be negative, but for the most part reflect current market conditions which are very negative.
BTW, what makes this blog popular are the comments by various people. There are countless blogs/sites that list foresclosed condos/houses….what those other sites dont have is the lively commentary by intellligent people.
I’m no expert, but I think that the next shoe to drop will be assessments to cover unpaid fees. Isn’t there pending legislation in Florida to force banks to pay the fees on their foreclosed properties? On NPR I heard a report that a foreclosed unit can go over ten months without paying condo fees. I think that this factor will hit the new buildings harder than the older ones with established associations.
JGM
the problem is we really need to fast forward to 12-18 months from now and see how this all shakes out. until then, what else is there to talk about other than conjecture about what happens to this RE market.
lucas – you might want to break your blog up in to topics (e.g., general market; new buildings etc.). i know i’m guilty of it, but the threads go off topic fast. if you want to banish us negative posters…it’s the easiest way to do it without offending us 🙂
Link to a a review on Jorge Perez’s new book.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121012207702672547.html
2 nuggets from the review:
1) “…reveals some of his other selling techniques… Make them wait outside a tent in the Florida sun for the opportunity to hear the sales pitch being offered inside”
– ie. treat SoFl RE buyers like the cattle they are.
2) “Mr. Pérez, to his credit, says that he frowns on the sort of speculative buying that fueled much of the run-up in housing prices – he refuses, he says, to sell multiple condo units to one buyer”
– ie. I did not have sexual relations with that woman
negative and positive, supply and demand, bulls and bears…..are the true essence of a free market and i must congratulate Lucas on a blog that captures the true representation of the current miami realestate market!!
why does Lucas keep editing my comments!?
There are no bulls left alive in the miami condo market umer ahmad
Samir- I believe that Lucas’ site is and will remain the premier blog for Miami condo market information and discussion. The negativity reflects the market environment and as much as you may or may not like it; the negativity is the reality. I am personally pretty bullish and am about to close on a unit shortly. The market participants seem to be predicting ever falling prices and this seems to be very consistent with a bottom. The actual numbers (maths) are starting to work at this $200 – $250 per sq ft price range for me. Whether they work for anyone else is really n0ne of my business; but I like to buy when everyone feels that the worst is yet to come.
Grant – The worst is yet to come based on a number of factors, huge inventories remain and in many cases are growing, lending standards are continuing to tighten and overshoot on the conservative side, foreclosures are accelerating, more loan resets, home purchases are down dramatically yoy, etc. Real estate isn’t a stock….the buyer strategy you stated really is a knife-catchers strategy if you buy now. Good luck.
FREE advice for all RE investors:
The Miami condo market will bottom out February 13, 2009 and reach the next peak April 1, 2017.
Doomsday will be October 29, 2017.
And now, act accordingly.
SAMIR, It is all well and good to say that the unit for sale now at $600K should never have sold for $1.1K, but in fact it did and someone (or some bank) is going to take an amazing loss…..Would you have turned down the commission on the $1.1K sale? Advised a client not to pay that much thus killing a deal?
Just how much “negativity” is a half a million dollar loss worth? How many half million dollar losses can the Miami RE market sustain before a complete panic/collapse? If it is possible that this unit eventually sells for $300K (Perhaps a generous figure as it is afterall a 2bdrm non ocean front APARTMENT with heavy carrying costs vs. rent!!), why on earth is it a great time to buy again?
I think high property taxes for new owners and high maintenance fees is what depresses this market. Taxes need to come down (hello legislators!) and maintenance fees need to come down (…turn off unecessary lights in public areas, cut waste, streamline…) Condo prices in Madrid for example are comparable to prices in Miami, but taxes and maintenance are 1/10th of what we pay here. Analize.
Only the foolish are buying at this point, so I’m looking for input and advice on where I should rent. The Beach has grown too unwieldy and noisy for my taste. I’m looking for a 2/2 condo with a nice waterfront view. My favorite place in Miami these days is Margaret Pace Park, so I’m leaning towards 1800 Club and Quantum. I also like the condos on Venetian Isles, though they are not nearly as well appointed as the new buildings. Not a huge fan of TMP or MB.
1) Any input on other building I should look at?
2) I’m seeing plenty of 2/2 condos with a view for around $1900. What’s the likelihood of seeing prices under $1800?
That’s because Madrid has one thing Miami doesn’t, income taxes, and doesn’t have one thing Miami does, hurricanes.
Hi Rocky dog,
Same here. I am kind of over SOBE. I love the Pace Park area. Yes 2/2 with views have come down from $2500 to $2000 now. But they may stay there in Q,1800 for a while as these two buildings seem to be a big hit with renters. They just love the park. The playground is awesome for people watching too.
I asked a few renters, why you settled on Q and 1800, this is what each of them they told me.
1. I just saw 1800, loved the building and dint bother look anywhere else.
2. The dog park is the best facility for any dog lover. It sold me on this.
3. There are many nice buildings in Miami but none of them have a park like this in the front.
4. With out the park/playground, these two buildings would just be nice buildings with a view, which are plentiful in Miami.
5. The amenities are first class.
6. Views.
7. Location
So if you want 2/2 near the pace park, but want it cheaper than $2000, try Opera Towers. There is a fire sale of rents on that building I heard (though the space is tiny and amenities suck in that building)
If you are willing to take a non bayview or partial bayview, you can get a 2/2 in Q and 1800 for $1750 or less.
This is definitely the nicest of the 4 buildings in the Park West area. I still think the area is going to take some time to develop, but it’s on its way there.
It’s a shame to see a lot of people are walking away from their deposits at this development.
Thanks for the photo update!
http://www.miamiurbanlife.com/group/900biscaynebay
AJ-
Thanks for the feedback. Pace Park reminds me of Lincoln Park in Chicago and Riverside Park in Manhattan- an amazing waterfront park in prime locales, established as public green space in perpetuity. Miami has sold off all of it’s prime waterfront acres for private development, and will NEVER be able to create such amazing, accessible, and public spaces in urban areas, for the common good.
I’ve been waiting patiently for rents to bottom in those areas, and I believe there’s still a ways to go. I think the supply far outweighs the demand for rental units. With the additional buildings coming online, this situation will only get worse in the next 1-2 years.
Any other areas worth looking into?
can any one tell me their opinion about some new studio appartments (600 to 700sf) listed in the Paradiso, next to hotel gansvoort for about $250,000 is this a good deal compared to the W at $749,000
does anyone know how much these units sold at before?
Umer – just to clairfy do you really mean The Roney or the Paradiso tower?
Rocky Dog and AJ, Midwesterner interested in the same 2/2 in those units to rent, maybe rent-to-own. Wife and I will be in the area June 5,6 to check these out along with Opera and Paramount (won’t be moving until late December; wonder whether it will be ready by then.) It looks as if we’ll need to check the beautiful 900 to0. Also want to check out St. Tropez mentioned by Renter Tom on Sunny Isles. (Do you know what these will rent for, RT?)
julian-the adds make it look like the paradiso because they have the view and pictures of the gansvoort pool! could you please clarify the difference between the two?? it says 2301 collins? is the old Roney Place now called Paradiso?
Looks like you’ve fallen for the power of misleading advertising then.
The North tower has been gutted and is (lower) floors the Gansevoort Hotel, and (upper) floors condos called Paradiso/Gansevoort South residences (depending on the vintage). These condo units have access (through a club) to the rooftop pool and “beach club” facilities of the Gansevoort. As well as pay per use concierge/housekeeping etc. The entrance is on 24th Street.
The Roney you see advertised is the South Tower – at 2301 Collins – entrance at 23rd Street – has not been gutted etc but is still physically the same building fabric. People will have their own views on the Roney – personally I think it’s an awful place. Rentals galore etc, massive amount for sale, old and dated interiors/communals.
Essentially they legally share some facilities (main pool/South pool) and you can also have your own view on the Paradiso units etc but these properties, apart from some external physical characteristics are nothing alike.
You need to do a ton of research on this building, its history, any pending/existing lawsuits etc.
julian-thanks!
“condos called Paradiso/Gansevoort South residences … These condo units have access (through a club) to the rooftop pool and “beach club” facilities of the Gansevoort.”
Hopefully they’ll have a doorman working a rope at the rooftop so only the cool condo owners can use the pool.
So there is the Paradiso, Gansevoort, and Roney Palace all in the same building essentially. What a cluster-f$%k of associations and shared uses.
the roney has been a cluster f%^k for years now.
Hi Rocky Dog,
You are right on the money. As far I can recollect, this (Margaret pace park) is the only waterfront public access park in miami.
I was looking at the Google satellite images of Miami shore line and alas, there is no waterfront park anywhere!
I was also looking at one point to buy a house in Miami shores area, it is not possible to find any place to go and relax at the waterfront anywhere there. All the waterfront is filled with private homes.
that is one serious mistake on part of Miami and its people and forefathers for this utter lack of foresight to reserve or buy some waterfront property for future generations.
Baard,
Avoid the Opera like plague unless you want cheap rents in a questionable building .
Paramount wont be ready by December.
900 has biscayne park in the front but no one ever steps foot in it. Presently there is cacaphony around this area. It might even get worse in the future. Behind 900, you have some of the biggest nightclubs in Miami namely, Discotekka, Allure (Part of Metropolis), Nocturnal, Space and a few more. Consider that too.
Sunny Isles is an alien landscape for me. No clue as to who lives there. I heard it is called little Moscow.
Having that Rooftop Pool and Lounge upstairs of Paradiso/Gansevoort is really cool though, I like the Beach Club at the Gansevoort too, Theres a lot of uncertainty in what is going on though but theres a David Barton Gym, Philippe Restaurant and a night club opening and once they are up and running and the W is finished I think that area will be the new place to go in South Beach
Just do your legal DD on all these aspects, zoning on the Beach Club etc
Thanks AJ. I’ll give Quantum and 1800 the first/best look then. It seems to me to be generally a good time to be relocating to Miami, despite but also partly because of the RE uncertainty. There certainly are a lot of intriguing (to me, based on the blog) options. Can’t wait to see them in person.
Baard – It is a good time to RENT, not buy. You can rent for half the price of owning (not even including the fact that home prices are declining…Money magazine predicts another 24.9% price decline for Miami area over the next 12 months…ouch).
Renter Tom — you’ve got me convinced. I’m looking forward to at least a year of renting. What do you think of St. Tropez?
Baard,
I would not recommend you rent anywhere north of the Miami River.
Stick to Brickell…
Either Brickell on the River, the Plaza, Avenue, Mark, Yacht Club, etc, etc…
Thanks JGM, checking the map it looks like that would rule out 1800 or Quantum and the very nice (from the pictures) 900 — still too far north?
Baard, Renter Tom and AJ are right. I was looking for an apartment to live 2 months ago and after doing all the numbers it is much better to rent right now. About the location, the Margaret Pace Park area is nice and I personally recommend Quantum. After doing all my research and visiting many building I think Quantum is one of the best. The building is nice, great amenities, close to everything plus the park in front with tennis, basketball courts, Dog Park etc.
And the best part rentals are not expensive. I got a 1/1.5 almost 1,000 sqf pool view, partial bay view for $1,300.
Valet Parking is free!!!!!! for you and your visitors.. It has a theater, free internet, cable the whole nine yards. If I was buying that apartment I would be paying almost $3,000 in mortgage, association and property taxes.
Not traffic noise like Brickell,and still 3 minutes away from it. Very quiet. If you want to go to Miami Beach you just take the small venetian Cswy and you are in sout beach within 5 minutes.
The building and the park are so nice that you don’t need to go anywhere else, and if you do you are close to everything.
I hope this helps you.
All these building are supposed to be luxury and I have not seen any real luxury building when I visit them.
For example 50 biscayne, 1800 club, and others bathrooms are so simple. Like any regular mid class house. Is that supposed to be luxury?
Kitchens are nicer than standard ones, but all the details are so simple and they still charge so much for those units.
I received the presentation flyer for 900 Biscayne, everything look different, nicer than other buildings. Rain Shower, beautiful lights and finishes, great kitchen
I have not been there personally yet, I hope it looks as well as in the presentation flyer
and even if it does, will somebody now pay 600K for a 1/1? The price list was veryyyy expensive.
Baard
two blocks west from all those developments is absolutely horrible.
I have lived in Miami for almost 30 years, and ever since the Omni International Mall was built back in the 70s, people have been saying that neighborhood will change.
Read the article below about why every retail development fails in that neighborhood….
http://www.deadmalls.com/malls/omni_international_mall.html
Thanks Chris NTL and JGM. I’m very much looking forward to the visit. Neighborhood “entropy” does seem hard to fight, almost anywhere. The curiosity from this vantage point is all the investment. I happen to have previously read the dead malls blog — intriguing!; oddly we had something similar happen here in South Bend, but just as curious: a new shopping “format” came in to replace our dead mall, and so far so good with that. I just wonder about ALL the capital that seems to be going into the area just north of the river — so far mostly in residences. I’m certainly not the “smart money” both because I don’t have all that much money and what money I have I’m not unusually smart with, but you’ve got to think that all those developers know something (don’t you?) They must expect some kind of yielding of the status quo given enough time and investment. Build it and they will come — and if they come they will vote — and if they vote things will improve … (?)
Baard,
The only reason developers built there is because of the bay front access; besides this, not sure what the market research was based on….
About the dead malls.. it is true but the neighborhood is changing .. it is not a low income housing anymore, you have very nice new buildings… Marina Blue , TMP , 900 Biscyane, Marquis, The OPera, Opera Tower, 1800 Club Quantum , Midtown , Midtown mall, etc etc… They restored the park ..it is not a ghost park anymore.
Plus Omni mall is reopening, there is a Hilton Hotel now… a university..
The area is not 100% changed… maybe 70-80% but is 100000 times better than when the Omni closed in ’99.. back then it was really bad
And also I am talking about east of biscayne where the park is .. are you going to tell me that is not a nice area? much more peaceful than brickell. I like brickell too
and for investment it is still affordable for a long term investment. Brickell is so over priced right now as much of miami .
Sorry Chris,
I would still be scared to walk the streets at night by the Omni….
Hi JGM, I have been following your rants about bums all along (and a few other people) and just want to laugh. It is like moving into a neighborhood with a nightclub and then complaining about noise!
Let us get a few facts right here. I have been all over America and by god, I have never seen so many homeless people as i Have seen here in Miami and Miami Beach. What ever be the reason for it.
We all have established the fact (from previous posters) that Miami is a 3rd world city in a first world country, Where very rich and very poor co-exist. Just imagine Bombay or Rio de Janiero where filthy rich people in their million dollar flats in those Ivory towers live right next to abject poverty and slums. Miami is not too far from that.
When you decide to live in Miami, you should be ready for all this.
the one reason I rented my condo in SOBE and moving to the Omni is because the south beach has become infested with bums. For every 20 I see in SOBE, I see one in Omni area and 5 in Parkwest/Downtown.
Guiliani and Bloomberg cleaned up NewYork and made it a livable city. All the Sqeegee Pests have been arrested, removed. Do you think Alvarez has the balls to tackle the Sqeegee pests here? I dont think you can round up all the squeegee pests from all intersections due to the unique nature of Miami. Why dont you run for mayor and clean up this city?
In any case do you guys have laws on the books to deal with pan handling, sleeping on the side walks and public defecation? If not have them . If you already do, be an activist and get them enforced very strictly so that alll bums are moved to a shelter forcibly.
instead of spending $400 million on opera houses, or Museum park, Miami can build Homeless shelters and clean up this city.
But all of you stop using homeless people as an excuse to run down certain neighborhoods, as if that is the yardstick, SOBE would be the most obnoxious place to live!
AJ
Sorry, you are mistaking my comments, I mentioned the overall neighborhood, not bums specifically.
In any case, you imply that all of Miami is the same where luxury neighborhoods border low income housing.
You are completely wrong, you have areas such as Key Biscayne, Coral Gables, Pincecrest, etc, etc, where there is no eminent danger of walking your dog at night fearing the neighbors in the near distance…
Just cross the bridge north out of Brickell and the homeless panhandling hits you. I hope its not a matter of time before they change their hangout from Bayside to Mary Brickell Village.
Exactly………..
JGM, that is exactly my point too. No place in Miami is immune to the homeless problem. You will start seeing them in front of Blue Martini very soon. Unless there is a collective will in the city as a whole and you have a Mayor who is willing to take up quality of life issues, this city wont clean up. I am already seeing many tourists expressing dismay at the number of homeless on the streets of Miami Beach. Hope someone is listening before it is too late.
Both Luis Revulta (the architect) Pedro/David Martin (developer) deserve a lot of credit on this building. I did much of the structural engineering on this job and worked closely with the key players. The architects’s concepts and the developer’s willingness to include them was an amazing relationship (especially in this town).
There was actaully a few things that were eliminated from the design to reduce project costs that would have made the building even better.
Does anyone know whether you can hear the noise of the night clubs from the west units of 900 Biscayne, Marina Blue and TMP?
I heard from somewhere that noise problems were an issue in that area…both from Biscayne Blvd and the noise from the clubs.
MarkyNZ: 900 biscayne bay has high impact glasses ( very expensive glass) that can handle wind speed of over 150 miles an hour ( could be 100). Once you close the doors, all sound is gone…Very quiet…
MarkyNZ – Before buying stop over to the unit you are interested in late at night and listen. WRT ivar, my building has near bullet proof glass but you can still hear when people are hooting and hollering on the beach. So, yes it cuts down on noise but not 100%.
My husband and i are closing at 900 biscayne next week. the building, ameneties, and apartment are very elegant and beautiful. The market appraisal came back at 750,000 for the 2/3 plus den east view. We purchased in 2003 @ 150,000 below that price. We purchased as our primary residence. We plan to stay long term. We are aware of the neighborhood development process difficulties that may lay ahead, however firmly believe in the area and its long term success. There are other primary residence buyers in this building, it is not a 100% flipping market buyer owner type. Financing for this unit was scrutinized heavily.
What do you think about Emerald at Brickell?…Looks like some deals in that building.
ej,
I would caution on those appraisals as they are way overvalued just to get you closed. Reality appraisels barely mean anything anymore.
I didnt buy at 90o but right next to you and my appraisel was also higher than I purchased but I still waked. Now, the units arent even selling for the price I orginally would have paid.
Not ot mention the costs I would have had to incurre to list it w/ a realtor commision and the 1.75 BS developer fees that you would pay upfront. Even still no gurantees it would even sell at asking price cause usally you’ll get offers below asking price but rarely a full price.
Think it through thru before signing.
Not for against you closing but make sure you think all the scenerios. Consider the taxes and maint fees along w/ the mortgage etc..
thanks for sound advice we closed last monday very happy. investment is for the longterm. looking forward to moving in great staff and believe in the area
by the way u can negotiate closing fees at this time if closing is what u want to do
ej primary residence buyer said: “by the way u can negotiate closing fees at this time if closing is what u want to do”
If that is all you have left in your arsenal and are closing on a unit, probably OVER-APPRAISED by at least 25%, you have ignored the old adage: When you find yourself in a hole: STOP DIGGING!
Once Again has hit the bullseye, as unfortunate as that may seem to some. This, to me, it a “Related Redux” down to the 1.75% “Developer Fee”. Sure, the developer will bend on this but WHO CARES? It’s chicken feed.
Ask for a 25% DISCOUNT on your original purchase price for openers. The worst that can happen is that they toss you out of the building which is where I would go if I were you and they wouldn’t give you a substantial discount off the original price.
Remember, when you “walk”, this same crew will try to resell “your” unit at a deeply discounted price!
Good question Jennifer….My brother has a unit at 900 Biscayne….must close within 30 days….the unit is a B4 I believe above the 40th floor….he lives out of town and has recently married. No interest in Miami anymore and worried about the market. Developer says they will do simultaneous closing….he bought preconstruction at 452,000….willing to sell at same price. Any takers??? This price is $433 sq/ft. with all bay views.
I interested in purchasing a unit all cash immediate closing. Please contact me with procedures.
Renter TOM,
I have been in property appraisal for over ten years now & have to say that you are dead on target (not with the 45 Magnum), but with your “few comments” post.
That’s my .02
Famous DJ – Yep, my post #40 above from May 11 is pretty much on target as are pretty much all of my ramblings. Just stating the obvious without the delusional housing blinders on …. 🙂
P.S. I think I brought up the FDIC insurance limit issue a looong time ago.
[…] It’s no secret that 900 Biscayne Bay is my favorite building of all the condo developments in Miami that have been completed within the past three years. When I show properties to clients who wish to view 900 Biscayne Bay as well as other condo buildings, I tend to leave 900 Biscayne Bay last. Otherwise, everything else will look second-rate by comparison if I were to show it first. I guess it’s my “leave the best for last” mentality. 900 Biscayne Bay is in a league of its own. Building security is some of the best in Miami and the overall quality of the development and amenities is second to none. Additionally, valet parking is currently complimentary for a second vehicle as well as for resident guests. View a photo tour of 900 Biscayne Bay. […]
[…] View the 900 Biscayne Bay common areas and amenities […]