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I really want to go inside and see the finishes of the common areas as well as the bathrooms of the units. From the catalog it looks like everything is going to be top notch, and the developer has a very good reputation above. The units were sold at very high prices though so lets see what happens. We cannot really compare it to Apogee since even if the building is up to par with Apogee it is in an area that has seen way too much development.
It must be erie to walk through that building. Kind of like viewing the estate of your recently deceased cousing (not by blood). Someone’s going to get it, it wont be you — but it looks really nice.
Watch for cobwebs. Can we get some people in here to clean this up. Dammit!
Definitely more jade looking than Jade. the condo needs a little more meat on it’s bones though. I’ll say even money a Cat 4 hurricane will tip it into the Bay… or at the very least cause an owner or 2 to shat their pants.
After a hurricane I’ll be driving around looking for the scrap pieces of copper that blew off the roof.
I heard people in town for Exxxotica at the M.B. convention center are already scouting this “Asia” building for some theme based movies.
Very fancy building–marketing must have been directed at select buyers–never heard of it or even noticed it with all the cranes in the area.
When I lived in One Miami, I lived directly across the river from Asia. As it went up (I left right before it was topped off), I couldn’t help but notice that it appeared even more tall and skinny than usual in these newer condos. The 12 ft ceilings add to the effect. The bottom line is, it would be tough to pay that much to look directly across the river at schmucks like me, who didn’t even bother with window treatments, and shamelessly capered about in all manner of behavior and dress…
BTW, what happened to the big news that you were alluding two a few weeks back, Lucas. You mentioned that you were on the cusp of something big?
I love this building. I saw the ph on the mls the other day and by the description it sounded amazing.
12ft ceilings? wow…
http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/18/markets/thebuzz/index.htm?postversion=2008041811
I’m glad weeks after I said the dollar had pretty much bottomed, others agree. That being said, the dollar and the stock market will bottom years before Florida real estate…
Renting at half the price of owning…and loving it…is a good thing.
I shorted FXE on wed…its an ETF that tracks the value of the Euro vs. the US Dollar. Good long term play if you are looking for the dollar to rebound.
What exactly is Asian about it? The sloped roof? lame…
Hey Lucas,
Check this out:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/04/18/bcnciti118.xml
I think I’d rather be in real estate than banking right now, no?
“What exactly is Asian about it? The sloped roof? lame…”
They could have named it Courvoisier Courts… Oh wait a sec, that’s taken already.
A must read. Let’s you get some insight into a set of morons that speculated in San Diego, Vegas & FL. The “Leverage RE till you drop” school of that led developers into thinking the market wanted 25,000 condo units when the “demand” was probably more from 2,500 speculators trying to flip 10 properties each.
Then:
http://money.cnn.com/2004/05/12/real_estate/investment_prop/tycoon_cromer/index.htm
Now:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/20080323-0820-investors.html
Courvoisier Courts.
Worst. Name. Evererror.
Guys are there any stats for foreign buyers in the Miami market. I’ve heard there are many Euro, Middle East and Latin buyers coming into town to acquire properties. If true, in your opinions does this make up at least 20% of the buys?
p.s. GREAT BLOG!!
GL
California
Middle East buyers?!!! Why would anyone from the middle east buy here? They could purchase a condo in the prestine city of Dubai…btw Dubai is completely overbuilt as well, so they would probably get a good deal. Dubai is very upper class, clean and safe metropolis compared to Mijami. On a another note, Mijami is no where near the bottom. Some fools are still building!!! West Brickell, they are laying the foundation for a couple of more buildings. It’s not a great area, but neither is downtown Mijami.
GL – My understanding is that there have always been foreign buyers…what’s new? Sure they weak dollar helps but to what extent? Sales are way down and inventories are at historic highs. Foreign buyers are not a panacea to the Miami market. Overall foreign buyers are just a blip on the way down. A much larger issue is the availability to finance and refinance properties – that has tightened across the board and will NEVER return to what it was after the bank lost billions. Oh well, the slide to normal will be interesting.
Foreign buyers are in Miami and acquiring but they’re making all the same calculations that local or national buyers are making so they will not be the panacea. It’s only on a relative basis that Miami looks extremely cheap. London is supposedly starting to see the softening of real estate prices but good luck finding any new build flats for less than $1250/sq ft. More typical is $1,600 for West End, so Miami seems cheap at $250/ sq ft. or 20% of the London price. My friends who are buying as well plan to use their places for may six weeks out of the year for holiday and let their friends use it probably another six weeks out of the year; so we’re talking about $1,600 per week of total use(assuming 250k purchase; 150k mortgage at 7%). This is cheaper than any of the decent hotels in the major tourist cities of Europe, the Middle East, or S. Africa. It’s starting to make sense for people who either have money or access to financing and who like Miami.
Wow…just saw an email from Zilbert on continumm II. They are asking $1136/sq.ft for a 2 bdrm. I dont know if Continuum II is a luxury building or not, but to see a “hot deal” so soon after they started selling condos there is not a good sign.
————————————————–
Here are more details:
We’ve just introduced an amazing condo opportunity at South Beach’s brand-new Continuum 2. This north-east facing 2 bedroom condo offers an ocean view that will thrill you. At 1491 sqft (138.5 m2), this makes the perfect holiday home, plus you get a private elevator foyer for added privacy and security.
Some quick facts:
PRICE: $1,695,000
BEDS/BATHS: 2/2.5
FLOORPLAN: Click Here
MORE DETAILS: Click Here
If you’d like to visit this condo, to see it for yourself, contact Yoandra Pena at [email protected]. We are offering appointments to visit this condo seven days a week, so you can visit it anytime you like!
Anybody have an idea why it seems the high end Fort Lauderdale condo market is taking a noticeably bigger dump than Miami?
I never paid too much attention to Lauderdale, but my impression was Miami and Lauderdale went up at the same rates with similar speculation and if anything, Miami has a bigger supply overhang.
Icon Brickell is going to have its problems, but Icon Las Olas… Oh my, now that’s a problem.
“Condo-hotels aren’t working for either condo owners or hotel-room renters”
Lesson for upcoming condo-hotel units like Canyon Ranch and a lesson in general how much folly is involved with making a condo purchase with the expectation of XYZ rental income to cover costs.
JL,
I haven’t checked the numbers on Fort Lauderdale versus Miami but my guess is that Miami has much higher demand. I don’t hear of many foreign buyers wanting to buy in Fort Lauderdale. Many domestic buyers love Fort Lauderdale, and some actually prefer it, but I’m pretty sure that Fort Lauderdale doesn’t get the demand from foreigners like Miami does.
Grant, interesting comment and keen observation, but your $1600 a week vacation cost doesn’t take into account:
a) The cost of putting down 100k
b) Taxes on a 250k condo = 5k a year
c) Maintenance of $500 per month
d) Special assessments to cover the shortfall in HOA
Lucas,
Great, ground breaking blog. Do you know anything about Nordica on Coral Way in the Roads?
JL
this is nothing new. the condo hotel concept has never worked in terms of being a profitable investment, i.e., a net gain in the end. notwithstanding this reality, the recent boom convinced people that condo hotels were a good investment because, in the interim, you could cover a good portion of your carry, and in the end, you would make your profit on appreciation. both assumptions were, like many things in this housing market, wrong.
Banks are getting more strict for loans for condo buyers. This will definately not help the market.
http://www.bostonherald.com/business/real_estate/view.bg?articleid=1088358&srvc=rss
As someone pointed out, if you are putting 20% down and all the additional expenses (HOA, insurance, taxes, and declining value), it does not make financial sense to buy. Your 20% downpayment invested wisely will make you money and you are liquid. So if something goes wrong (divorce, job loss, etc), you can get money quickly. With a condo, when you sell, you lose 6%.
Interesting article on BBC on miami:
Link:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7355289.stm
Some quotes:
“We recently bought a property that was $2.5m (£1.25m) at the height of the market for $800,000.”
Miami Herald “Tough times loom for condo owners seeking loans or re-fis” reports on AIG withdrawing from private mortgage insurance for condos. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are becoming much stricter. Lenders must warrant documentation.
Grant – the maths, as pointed out, doesn’t work by the time you include taxes, HOA, furnishing etc, no tax deductibility for foreigners etc. They just don’t come close. Your $250k condo also doesn’t compare in location to where anyone in their right mind wants to be in a hotel on holiday. And if they do, like the Mandarin Oriental, again the math doesn’t work at all.
Moreover your comparisons between London and Miami aren’t correct. First the prices you allude to in London aren’t right. West End – Mayfair, St James’s, Marylebone = $2000-$5000 a sq ft. Notting Hill, Kensington, Knightsbridge, St John’s Wood – $2000 – $4000 sq ft. Give or take 10% either way.
And comparing Downtown Miami/Brickell condos with Mayfair is wrong. Pick South of Fifth/Key Biscayne and at least you are dealing with the equivalent high end.
Or compare Mill Hill with Brickell…
Here’s a broad question since we reference foreigner’s buying homes in Miami a lot. Anybody know the normal lending standards in the UK, Canada, Spain, Venezuela, France are for their domestic markets and what type of terms they need now to come into the Miami market?
Just as the financing for the local Miami market has dried up from US banks lending to US residents, I understand the financing terms for foreigner’s buying into the US have gotten much much worse.
Is it the situation where a person in Europe is able to put down 20% or even no money down in European properties but has to put down 40% on a property in Miami? I understand the financing was always stricter for a Non-resident to purchase in Miami, but has it gotten comparatively much worse than local lending requirements for US residents, which have gotten quite harsh?
Everybody in the mortgage business I know still tells me there are a lot of “marginal people” wanting to buy now, but there is no point because the banks won’t make the loans. What’s clear now is how many speculators and marginal buyers were in the condo market propping up the prices. Back in the day, if you could not put 20% down, then there was several loan options readily available for you… but seriously folks, who here grew up in a household where your parent’s didn’t put at least 20% down? People in Miami are probably the most leveraged people you will ever meet; no savings, maxed out credit cards, no money down leases on Porsches, living month to month, and now you give them access to no money down liar loans and an ability to “work the system” to get multiple properties or play a “fraud“ game allowing easy equity out refis… What were the banks thinking?
It’s kind of funny really. During the boom, the banks were like cocaine dealers giving properties away with no money down and no documentation. During the bust the banks are acting like school teachers telling you whether can speak or not. Right now the banks want everybody to shut up and stay in their seats.
I don’t think the behavior of the banks is quite shocking. Frankly, their recent course of action is indicative of the general tug of war that you see in any company. When times are good, the profit guys (loan officers etc.) are at the forefront and the cost center guys (i.e., risk management) are in the background. Once things turn for the worse, the converse applies. there rarely is a happy medium.
As for foreign purchasers, my own anecdotal understanding is that banks are requiring 30% down from foreign purchasers. As for the new Fannie et al guidelines, I’m not sure how much that will affect many foreign purchasers. One, if they have to come up with 30%, then PMI isn’t an issue to begin with. Two, Fannie’s cap is around 450k, thus, unless you’re looking for something in this price range, you may then have to worry about the condo ass’n due diligence.
The article does raise a good point about new buildings – how can a new ass’n, especially one that is still in the developer’s hands, possibly make all the necessary disclosures? And how can you really tell if a unit was purchased by investors outside of knocking on doors and actually checking IDs?
Slow housing market speeds up scam
“… The U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of Florida announced a crackdown on mortgage fraud in September. It has indicted alleged scammers in Miami-Dade and Broward counties, and U.S. Attorney R. Alexander Acosta promised more charges in the coming months.
But investigators acknowledge that Johnson Cuffy remains the rare mortgage skimmer arrested. Mortgage fraud investigations move at a glacial pace, and Padich, the state fraud detective, admits many schemers get away with it because few cops have the time and expertise to find clues in phone-book-thick stacks of closing documents.
The irony is that a criminal who robs a bank with a gun can expect to be surrounded by a SWAT team in minutes. But, Padich said, a thief who robs a bank with a bogus appraisal and doctored closing documents can expect to get away with it.”
-end of story-
The appraise high and equity out scam is nothing new. What’s odd is how they decided to bust the person in the article. It’s like they went fishing with a net in large fish tank and that is what came out. It’s not close to the most egregious examples of this scam out there, but it’s nice to know they are catching some people. I thought it was worthwhile to post because they gave U.S. Attorney R. Alexander Acosta as a point man, and I remember there was talk a while back on this blog regarding who/how to report the mortgage fraud that happened or is ongoing.
Look here at the poor quality of 10 Museum Park. I can’t imagine buying into this place. Such shoddy construction.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=19846420&postcount=20
JL,
Guideliness for foreign nationals are pretty simple and pretty straight foward. 30 % down accross the aboard you have to able to show bank accounts with assets and at least 6 months of mortgage payments and that really about it. There is not much they can verify. The bulk of my business if Europeans and I believe it is still fairly easy to get a loan for them with the right paperwork, the only problem is there are obviously far less banks doing foreign nationals out there but there are still a couple out there and that really all you need.
As to the marginal buyers believe it or not for europeans its still a great deal to buy up whatever is available here. My clients love Brickell as they tell me you have lets say one bedrooms going for 150-250 even lower but even at 250K its about 170K in Euros for arguably the best residential area in Miami. For them its cost effective simply because they dont have much of a buying option in Europe for 170K euro and typically these are people that like to come over for a couple of months out of the year and it turns out to be a good deal for them.
bc, thanks for those pics of ten museum park. It is looking like such an antique already, it indeed belongs in a museum. How could they leave it in such a state of disrepair, especially the outside of the building, while charging 775k + for a unit there. It is also the first building to start closings on the park west. They have no excuse at all. Shame on the part of the developer.
BC, and thats at ground level, who knows how the higher levels of the tower are doing….
How many units does the developer at 10 Museum still have? Its been almost a year. Is the developer going bankrupt?
I’ve never seen a new building look so poor and in disrepair after such a short time.
I have recently been to park west and been inside Marina Blue. I am very unimpressed by the whole area. All the buildings there are unrealistically overpriced. TMP will be the first to lose its ridiculous high asking prices. MB will be next and 900 and marquis may hold out for a a little longer.
In Marina Blue, one of the bedroom of the 2 BR unit is stunning and the other bedroom is nothing but a glorified storage room with a bathroom. It is located next to the back corridor with windows near the cieling. I basically call all the 2 BR units there as 1 BR units with an attached storage. If you open the windows of the “storage space”, the noice was unbearable. I almost jumped out of my skin when a truck coming out of the port let out an earth shattering hoot. Multiply that by xxxx fold. All those buying a 2 BR unit in MB should bargain to get the second non bayfront BR sq. footage to be super heavily discounted before buying.
Convenient place to walk to AAA, Discotekka, Nocturnal, Space. But I cannot imagine living in those 4 buildings (900 is the least offender out of the 4). Marquis being literally on top of a major highway (395) and pretending to be high end!!
Any New Yorkers remember the 4 tall towers called “taino towers” built on I 95 (Cross Bronx)? I see no difference between Marquis and the taino towers.
None of these buildings have any kind of landscaping, setback or such. They are asking for 2020 prices in the year 2008. Stay away unless those prices hit below 350/sf in those 4 buildings. If not the investors who bought them or the developer with unsold units can just keep ’em. Thanks but No Thanks!
A bit off topic, but has anyone heard of this phenomena happening in Miami? Places like Vue and Waverly come to mind…
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/apr/19/na-forced-to-give-up-condos/
I totally agree with AJ, just because someone came up with a fancy name for an area like “park west” doesent make the spot any good. Theres four buildings kissing each others a**’s and they are in a heavy traffic area. Once those four buildings in about 3 blocks get filled (whenever that may be) I can’t possibly imagine what getting out in the morning will be like (just think one miami times ten, ouch). on top of all that they are still for asking top dollar. “park west” is not the best spot in downtown miami, not by a long shot.
I do agree with AJ on Park West issues with noise and general aesthetics…even if the market rebounds and the proposed hotel-office-retail developments immediately behind these condos proceed and bring more services/life to the area, residents will still always contend with pretty significant noise pollution from 95/395.
While this might not make any difference in a colder climate like New York or Chicago, in Miami it really drags down the appeal of pool decks and other outdoor spaces that will be used year-round and thus the long term desirability of these residences to discriminating, affluent purchasers. This was a big factor in the disappointment of many end users in Blue as well…totally surrounded by on/off ramps and what is basically a major highway. Who wants to sit by a pool and listen to 18-wheelers go roaring by below? It’s like being at some cheap road-side motel in middle America.
All negative market forces aside, I just don’t see how any of these Park West buildings can ever reach a popular consensus as “best in town” because the location is always going to be noisier/ grittier than Santa Maria, Asia, Grovener House, Apogee, Paramount Bay, etc.
By the way, regarding some of the earlier posts about Asia, the pic here really doesn’t do it justice. It’s a very classy and well done piece of architecture and since most of the floor-plans wrap around half of each floor, they also have good views back towards Key Biscayne as well as out towards the River/ Port of Miami
Kim,
Waverly has been converted in 2003 into condos, sold, sold again and sold again. Not sure how article is related.
Waverly was the first to convert here on West Ave, followed buy The Floridian, The Mirador, The FAILED Flamingo and The Mandrian.
Most conversions do not start closings until the meet a certain number. That conversion in Tampa sounds like they started closing early for cash flow. Hummm,, sounds like the Mandrian.
They claim 70% sold for the last year. When the Buyers contract it is with the understanding that the units will close prior to completion and the Developer will pay the Buyers cost (mortgage, tax and condo fees) until delivery. Probably closing the units prior to closing for working capital. Not sure why they are claiming 70% sold and far fewer have actually closed. It would concerned in this market knowing the developer had my money and I only had a deed for an unfinished building.
Isabel said what I wanted to say about the Hyperion Blue. Why the heck would anyone live between a split highway? Absolutely right about a cheap motel next to a highway anywhere in America. What gets me the most is that they have the b*lls to ask $500 and upwards for a SF in that building!! No matter what the amenities are.
Any one paying more than $300/SF in the 12 line or more than $250/SF in any other line in Blue is a FOOL…at least in the next 3 years.
I went to look at ASIA and boy, what a mind blowing building! It is stunning. Did not go inside but I am sure I wont be disappointed. That is a building worth living in I suppose.
On the darker side, I could not even get to look at Icon Brickell without getting a headache. That building looks so claustrophobic with everyone looking into everyone elses living room. They are just 3 vertical boxes. Sorry, never buy because of a name like Related, Trump or Tibor etc. Go by the individual building and its merits. I have seen the biggest names make some of the worst buildings.
And finally, when Met comes up, people living in EPIC will be reaching out from their balconies and shaking hands with them. What a pity! Even in New York, we do not have buildings so cramped together (Sides maybe, but not the fronts of the building)
I don’t think Brickell Key gets enough kudos on this site. I moved to Brickell Key in 1997, and I have to say its the nicest part of Downtown if not Miami.
On the bright side, I really appreciate that we have the Metro Mover. It is such a joy and a pleasure and it is FREE! Which other city has given its citizens something free. Everyone from NY to London are trying to fleece its citizens. Miami metro mover should a matter of pride for all of us. Also the city should scrap pork projects with corruption possibilities such as museum park project etc and put that money to extend the Brickell loop to 26th st ( Rickenbacker Causeway entrance), Omni Loop to Midtown Miami and add another loop to South Beach till 5th and Alton with a connection to the 25 cent SOBE local bus. That would be the ultimate gift to Miamians from the city. Hope that happens one day along with the Port tunnel project.
Agree with the comments above. Alot fo these building are sexy outside but not very good inside and rather small in particular Marina Blue and Ten Museum (except the east side 2 story lofts.)
It’s really small and a 2bd might as well be a 1 with storage room.
Nice curb appeal but hasn’t delivered.
Judjing from the pics on 10 Museum it’s an awful shame the way the upkeep on that building is. There’s no excuse to have all sorts of unpainted patchwork and cracking on a new building it’s been just about a year since closing and nothing has changed…there’s no retail component, Le Praire Spa, or the kicker signature Micheal Caponni Lounge in the building with acess to the hottest nightclubs. What a marketing joke that was.
All those buildings will take a tumble look at the drops on 10 museum already, the rest will follow the same fate.
Antonio, I totally agree with you. Brickell key is absolutely gorgeous. But personally I like some action around me. Like life. It is nice to watch People playing ball or jogging or just going by their life. Brickell Key looks so exclusive and sterilized, it is not for me. It is beautiful though. If you like that kind of exclusive living, it will be great to live there.
On the Asia website, it shows a bathroom mirror with a TV embedded in it. Now that is luxury.
The problem, however, is the word “luxury ” is thrown around so much in the condo market these days, that it is hard to be impressed anymore. Sensory overload!!!
Anyhoo, I totally agree about the metro-mover. I know some people abhor it but if Miami was to expand this system to incorporate all the new neighborhoods (Midtown, Edgewater, Brickell, River etc.) it would make them more livable.
Want to buy condos in bulk? Y’all better have the financing lined up, and a boatload of equity.
I thought this was an interesting article to share, about Lennar’s 360 in North Bay Village. That project was one of the first to go up but who in their right mind would want to live in NBV?!
I’m copying the article here because it’s only available by subscription:
Condo bulk buyers facing challenges when trying to get loansSouth Florida Business Journal – by Oscar Pedro Musibay
Bulk sales of condos are running into the harsh reality of stiff loans terms, which could further hinder South Florida’s recovery.
In one recent example, a European group wanted a loan for 80 percent of the purchase price on 50 units at Lennar’s 360 project in North Bay Village, but was only offered 60 percent for 50 condos, said Craig Studnicky, principal of residential brokerage International Sales Group, which is marketing the project for Lennar Corp.
The $17 million purchase contract – about $250 a square foot – fell through last month because of the financing hurdle. The contract price was $3 million lower than ISG’s orginal price for the package of units.
The 414-unit waterfront project has several 15-story towers. ISG has sold 30 units in the last 60 days at preconstruction prices – $275 a square foot.
At this point in the downturn, debt for bulk buys will “probably top out at 50 percent,” said Robert Given, who runs CB Richard Ellis’ Miami-based multi-family group.
“Cash is king in today’s environment,” he said. “I expect this to be one of the biggest hurdles. Further, lenders are standoffish on Florida at the moment.”
“The big-league players in the distressed property acquisition arena are cash buyers,” said Jack McCabe, CEO of Deerfield Beach-based McCabe Research & Consulting. “Those relying on financing will have second-tier opportunities, but will find financing difficult to acquire and, due to the risk, at high interest rates.”
Peter Zalewski, a principal of Condo Vultures Realty, which has been specializing in purchases of distressed units, agrees with Given that 50 percent is the ceiling on debt in bulk buys. He said he knows of a pair of groups – one out of Colorado and one out of Monaco – that are offering a maximum of 50 percent financing. He added that buying groups can expect the debt rates to vary between 10 percent and 15 percent, with short terms of one to three years, like a mezzanine loan.
‘The state of the markets’
Manny de Zarraga, executive managing director of the Miami office of Holliday Fenoglio Fowler, said: “It’s tough to get condo inventory loans due to the capital markets’ problems. This is not a trend, but just the state of the markets.”
One way to get a loan is to personally guarantee it, he said.
De Zarraga sees other hurdles for bulk buys coming to the fore, including the legal complications posed by the buying group’s assumption of developer liability on a project, construction claims and homeowner association deficiencies. As a result, buyers are offering prices lower than developers want in order to deal with the risks.
Another pricing driver is that buying groups want a 20 percent return on investment, a very high threshold for deals, which is reflected in the offers they are making to lenders and developers. That and the fact that some buying groups are signing bulk contracts and walking away before the money goes hard is souring lenders and developers to bulk buyers, Zalewski said.
“You are starting to find developers and lenders fed up as bulk buyers – a lot of them – are coming through, getting a property under contract and terminating right before the money goes hard,” said Zalewski, who had a bulk buyer marketing its contract on a Vero Beach project just prior to the close. “They are speculating.”
….My opinion? They’ll eventually sell in the 200k range, not a penny more.
This is too funny from the story above:
-who had a bulk buyer marketing its contract on a Vero Beach project just prior to the close. “They are speculating.”-
So the “smart money” bulk buyers are trying to flip their contracts LOL. Doesn’t anybody in S Florida have real money or was it all a bunch of Fico scores and maxed out credit cards?
The Metro Mover is great. Due to some car issues this weekend, I relied heavily on Metro rail, metro mover, and buses.
The Omni loop puts you within a couple of blocks of Edgewater area with Quantum, Cite, Opera Tower, etc. and buses easily take you to Lincoln Road and South Beach.
Some people think that Miami and its drivers are rude. But I found people taking public transportation to be pleasant and friendly.
The more we can do to get people out of their cars and relying on an efficient public transport system the better. Extending the omni loop to Midtown sounds great. Extending the metro rail to FIU would also be great.
can you people lay off the praise for the metro mover already? I’ve had the misfortune to ride the thing eight times in my four years in Miami (the other eight times I tried to ride it was broken down.) I have yet to see an operating escalator at any station. and the free fare means your fellow passengers are derelicts even by Miami standards. Every car is filthy and reeks of stale pee. they should hand out free soup and call it the Rolling Homeless Shelter it is.
now, back to topic…..
Looks like new lending rules will spell disaster for a lot of new construction:
New Lending Rules
No declining markets
70% owner occupied
10% minimum down payment
Adequacy of association budgets
Requirements on commercial space
http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/realestate/bal-re.harney20apr20,0,2345831.story
Come on Movin’ Metro, Don’t be such an elitist and also a pesssimist too about a noble project.
I didnt find anything you said about the system. How long back did you ride? i took the MM several times and this is what I found;
1. The cars are relatively clean, no smell either.
2. The only stale odor I found was in an elevator in Park West station, other than that mostly it was good.
3. Never had to wait more than 5 minutes for a train, either omni loop or brickell loop both during peak and offpeak hours. That is pretty impressive.
4. only one time I had the lucky chance of travelling with a bum, who by the way actually had a purpose to where he was going and not using the train as a shelter. Other than that it is mostly students, construction workers and yes, tons of suited professionals working in the financial district who travelled along with me in the train. Give it another chance. It will be good for your body and soul too.
I haven’t seen Asia but I have a couple of clients who bought there. Lucas, I don’t understand why you are not seeing any concern. Even if the place is the Taj Mahal, just based on the market, I would assume: 1. You can’t resell, 2. Can’t get a mortgage (or extremely difficult), 3. Renting it out won’t cover, 4. Doesn’t make sense either for your own use or as an investment.
I guess my point is that I almost can’t envision it making sense to close on any condo in Miami in this market, no matter what it looks like. Am I wrong?
Candela,
Thanks for the info on 360 which is where I live. Its actually quite a nice a development. Most of the residents are renters as am I. Right now I think Lennar is paying most of the bills because it appears to be less than 50% sold.
Hill, I disagree. 1. If you can get a mortgage 2. If you are the end user 3. If the price is right (I mean really right) then anytime is a good time to buy.
The two main problems now are to secure a mortgage and the sellers are still not reducing the 04, 05 paper gains. if those are taken care of, at least the end user segment should get back in the market. There are some good deals out there from realistic people. Dont shut yourself off completely.
Back to Metro Mover;
This is the Earth Week. Why not everyone who lives within walking distance of the MM ride it to work and leave your cars home this week. At least until friday. Do your little bit for the Earth so that Ocean drive wont be under water in 50-100 years from now.
thanks
AJ – You forgot to include the length of ownership. If you’re not planning on living there at least 5 years, you need to rethink buying. Transaction costs, holding costs while you try to sell, and of course how much you initially paid for the place is important. People buy on payments but forget you have to sell on the price. Don’t get fooled by low monthly payments when the price is high!
The HOA issue is finally getting some press in the Miami area. Anybody know of a way to get a summary of the status of the HOA in the buildings in Brickell area? Which ones are solvent and which ones are in trouble?
Tom, you are absolutely right. I forgot to include the length of ownership to the 3 other requirements I mentioned. So 1. If you can get a mortgage 2. If you are the end user 3. If the price is right (I mean really right) 4. And if you are planning to stay there for 5 or more years then anytime is a good time to buy.
AJ,
You are still missing an important component 🙂
Your neighbors and theirs financial situation.
Even if all your others points are checked if you buy in a building where the HOA is not being paid by some unit owners or just in order to maintain a lower HOA the building is not well kept. Then you better stay out of there.
And finally I would remove #2 , just that in that case the “right price” can be different than if you were an end user
Off topic a bit, but…worth reading.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080422/economy_shiller.html?.v=2
“Yale University economist Robert Shiller, pioneer of the widely watched Standard & Poor’s/Case-Shiller home price index, said there’s a good chance housing prices will fall further than the 30 percent drop in the historic depression of the 1930s. Home prices nationwide already have dropped 15 percent since their peak in 2006, he said.”
anybody have any comments on Atlantis condos? I know they are older, but the building is thus established. insight on the HOA issues, insurance (since it is an old building), etc. I noticed the prices seem to be attractive, but maybe there are reasons for this price point?
I’m not necessarily a fan of the Vue, but check this out. A unit was auctioned recently by the lender, but evidently the highest bid of $180,000 was not accepted for this 2/2 with 1205 sq ft.
They are accepting post-auction bids, and maybe someone might be interested in a new brickell condo for ~$160 / sq. ft. Details are at: http://www.hudsonandmarshall.com/PropertyInformation.asp?propertyID=40917&display=1250+S%2E+Miami+Avenue+%231201+%2D++Miami%2C+Florida&auctionId=408
Bubblerefuge,
I’ve been fascinated by 360 ever since Lennar started building it because North Bay Village is such an odd place, kind of neither here nor there. Close enough to the ‘sort-of’ neighborhood in Normandy, but also really close to the ghetto that is 79th Street and Biscayne and beyond.
I’ve always thought they spent more money marketing the project in the Miami Sun Post than they spent on development costs!
It also strikes me as being far too dense for the area; way too many units on that small piece of land.
What’s it like living there? I would guess that since Lennar is the developer the amenities are top of the line, they are premier when it comes to quality.
Cdla,
The Gym is fairly large; having enough machines and free weight to enable one to get a pretty good full body workout. Lush Landscaping (stealing a phrase from realtorganda ). The property is completely fenced. There is a greenbelt/baywalk that hugs the perimeter of the compound that borders the bay and faces the marina. A section of the baywalk is fenced and is being used as kind of a dogpark. Valet parking. Ample parking spots. Clubhouse and a cafeteria is planned. Regarding security, NBV has its own police department right across the street from 360.
We have a pretty nice view of downtown and the bay.
The “marina residences” are real nice
you can see them in this shot along with the
greenbelt. They are bigger than the condos and include 2 parking spots.
http://www.lennar.com/FL/Miami/360Condominium.html
Wonder how low these are going to go?
Come and check it out anytime. There are lennar sales associates on site during business ours and on weekends.
Thanks! Know anyone living in Space? That seems like a pretty cool development, right down the street from you.
…but I guess what I really wanted to know was … what’s it like living in North Bay Village?! I can’t figure out that community for the life of me. Though I sure do like going to Shuckers for happy hour, it seems like that’s it as far as nightlife in the area.
And I can’t wait for the Normany golf course to reopen, though I doubt it will be the same 12 bucks a round like it used to be!
I don’t think that the MET 3 project will be built to the 74 stories they are advertising. While in Miami I had placed a $70,000.00 deposit in 2005 expecting to have a vacation condo by 2009. My attorney, Kenneth Damas, of Adorno & Dammas LLP. Recovered my full $70,000.00 deposit in 2 weeks. I do not think they are going to buid the project, does anyone know otherwise?
Hey Candela, where do you live? I like living in NBV.
Candela,
Well, there are some restaurants on NBV proper like the crab house, bruchetta’s,et al. But if you consider that the upper east side(home to the top rated restaurant in miami:michys) is a hop skip and a jump away along with the area from NBV to Nomandy isle to Collins ave which is chock full independent retailers and restaurants featuring international/latin cusine (brazil,columbia,paraguay,argentina) , then there’s plenty of breadth. All in all, the area has a fairly working class texture and I’d recommend it if you want to get away (not to far) from snootyness of brickel or the sobe scene. As far as night clubs, don’t know of any other than black gold on biscayne. 😉
BigT – Bay Harbor Islands
Bubblerefuge – I also love the restaurants on the ‘upper east side’ like Michael’s/Michy’s/Brosia etc but I still find that neighborhood to be pretty lousy.
But yeah, the drive from NBV thru Collins does have a bunch of good independent restaurants, though I think the new-ish diner next to Miami Locksmith may have just closed due to lack of interest. Either that or they went on vaca for a little while.
Fascinating story on the Moody’s and S&P credit rating of mortgage backed securities. A Must read.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/27/magazine/27Credit-t.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
I’ve been extremely busy this past week, so I haven’t found much time to focus on my blog. I did, however, crunch the numbers, a few days ago, for an April Brickell Condo Index. It’s been six months since my last update. I was shocked that it’s been that long. The numbers were quite intriguing. I hope to share those with everyone by Monday, if time permits.
Anyone notice that the foreclosure at Bel -Aire on the ocean went pending. A new bottom has been established for south facing 1 /1.5 units….less than or equal to $329k.
Honestly, I think the price will be lower, but lets watch all the north facing units collapse into foreclosure now….they’re about 5% higher with much lower floors and much poorer views
Lucas
Were you censored by tibor/
Today I was walking on the south point park and doing some numbers in my mind. If 20,000 units came up between 2004 and end of 2008 costing between 200k and 1 million or more, and if we take an average of $400,000 for each unit, it translates to $8000,000,000. 2% of this equals $160 million. That is the additional taxes, the miami-dade is collecting per year. Do they really need all this? Can a single pimp (a spineless elected official) stand up and have the balls to say enough is enough. They dont have to feed so much pork with everyone filling their pockets. How about reducing the homesteaders taxes to 1% and non homesteaders to 1.5%? The long term locals think that they can tax the “rich” New Yorker or Chicagoan forever and have a semi free ride. But no matter how much you love Miami, it is not unconditional and guaranteed forever. Even if your most favourite trophy wife’s spending starts getting out of control and depleting your bank account, you will start considering to dump her and move on.
I just hope someone sees the light. With half of the second homes in Miami owned by the northerners, it is a good ides to take their sensitivities into consideration too.
just venting out of frustration especially when I see my tax dollars are paying for a cop to sit in wet willy’s and having fun on ocean drive.
Curious how little talk there is of the Marquis Condo (next to Ten Museum, 900 Biscayne and Marina Blue)so I looked it up and found some interesting info.
The developer is levievboymelgreen. Basically the 2 partners in the company had a widely publicized messy company breakup last year with one of the disagreements being what to do with heir faltering Miami Projects. It looks like the 1 partner took over the Miami condos and gave up the rest to the other partner. It seems they/he canceled 2 of 4 Miami projects and went ahead with Marquis and Vitri –the 4 story building that kisses the Alton road exit off MacArthur Causeway- (I always wondered who the dumbass building there was, now I know LOL).
Anyway, if you are looking at Marquis, you should dig around more about the developer right now. He doesn’t sound like he’s on very solid footing. It’s going to take a developer with an “A” game to make it through this market and this guy sounds like he’s JV.
Found this post –from 3/12… 2008- (#27) on
http://www.miaminights.com/developer-leviev-boymelgreen-is-no-more-4006.phtml
“I am local realtor. I sold at their Marquis project. They have been postponing my comission since the past 6 months everyday with a different excuse. Finally they told me to call this week and this week their lines are all disconnected. I have been doing business in this market since the past 15 years. Never seen any developer like this. Buyer, brokers, any good people out there BEWARE. Stay 20 miles away from these liars… I am very angry at them especially about their lies. I kept asking them if there was a problem that I needed to be aware of an they just kept lying to me… Well anyways I just have to sue I guess like all the other realtors that sold on these projects…”
Kevin, how can Tibor censor this blog? It is unconstitutional to censor freedom of speech, no matter how rich Tibor is?
You obviosly haven’t met my newphew Bruno. He’s a doctor specializing in involuntary kneecap surgery.
Off topic: it’s not “unconstitutional” to curb free speech unless the gov’t is doing the curbing. Private parties can censor away (eg, your private employer can fire you for saying certain things).
-we need to see more blog entries; 2 per week is not enough!
Tibor should focus on getting a face job than worrying about this blog
short sale- is anyone familiar, can you do a short sale to a family member or will the bank deny the short sale automatically because its the same last name? anyone have experience with short-sales?
JL
lev leviev is a multi-billionaire so i don’t think any of his projects will ever suffer a capital shortage (if he chooses to open the spigot).
http://www.forbes.com/global/2003/0915/046.html
that said, i’ve heard rumors he’s trying to dump marquis. the story i heard was that he came to miami, looked at the project and said get rid of it. vitri was cancelled, at least according to a dbr article several months back.
“VITRI was cancelled, at least according to a dbr article several months back.”
Late last fall, the VITRI site was abandoned. Initial site prep (rebar sticking up out of ground” is as far as they got. I guess that would get them “second round” deposits!
Marquis is doomed, it has the least desirable location and floorplans out of the 4 Biscayne towers and it will come onto the market about 6 months after the rest… and it expects to price itself above them??? Vitri is a cemetary already? Hmm, I think we are going to need to replace the Miami crane with the rusted rebar snake as a mascot during the bust.
I agree, if you really take a look at the floor plan at Marquis they really arent all that. Mostly narrow corridors with the exception of a few units. May look sexy outside but on the inside not that great as far as living space. Also take into account the noise from literally being right on the expressway kind of like what Blue is like you do hear the car’s zooming by even at high floors with the resistent glass panels it still comes through.
Not to mention Marquis was sold at th height of the boom so it was overpriced to start with.
marquis’s ending will be interesting. if leviev can’t dump it and goes all the way to cloing, frankly, i think you’ll see a large number of cancellations. if that’s the case, what’s the appeal to a bulk buyer with a place like this? it’s really too expensive to operate as a rental.
I just read Leviev’s biography. look for the link in jcrimes comments. What a guy. I understand that he is a controvercial figure but at the same time so brave and talented. Certainly a person to be admired in many ways.
re: Leviev
“Behind every great fortune lies a great crime” … or two
Yeah….Marquis and Vitri! haha
Seriously, Marquis will have soem issues not to mention they were talking about it being a certian part a hotel. Who knows what will happen w/ that.
Well remains to be seen. The building doesnt seem to be rushing along so we wont see anything till late this year early next.
BigT wrote, “Tibor should focus on getting a face job than worrying about this blog”.
He tried to buy mine for $50,000, I turned him down. Maybe he tried to buy Lucas’s, so he sued him for non-compliance.
I wonder how that lawsuit is going? Maybe Lucas has been in court a lot. Where’s the update……..
Only a matter of time before one of those planes on approach to MIA takes out one of those condo towers. Maybe not such a bad thing is it lops off half the units at Opera Tower….we could use a little less inventory around here…
Speaking of planes taking off from MIA, the Marquis project was originally slated to have at least 10 more floors. However, the FAA came in at the last minute and nixed those floors, which were of course going to be the most expensive, penthouse units. Essentially, the project got off to a very bad start before the market even collapsed, so that doesn’t bode well for its future.
Even some of the tallest buildings on Brickell (Santa Maria and Four Seasons), I have seen 747s barely clear those projects on take off…….just try having a conversation on your pool deck with that! Also, its a big negative for Midtown……another project on direct approach with the planes…
Lev Leviev is a big piss of shit. A pushy scumbag who couldn’t get into Arby’s if they had a rope.
Empire World towers recieved a 100 floor permission from City as well as FAA clearance to be built in the downtown area.
Does anyone know if the 7 eleven would have been razed if Vitri is built? Is it part of the lot?
7 eleven would have stayed.
The 7-11 property is owned by (I think) the Estefans.
Maybe its just a coincidence, but Lev Leviev’s holding company, Africa-Israel, claims it is the largest 7-11 franchisee in the US.
I’ve noticed a recent spike in ads for units at Vue, selling at a very cheap price but with the catch “sold as is” with brief mention of “code violations.” Anybody now what is happening there? Are the units being required to upgrade to some new code restriction?
This blog appears dead. Any other good ones out there?
Can anyone help me with a condo decision? 186.00 per foot for South Bay Club 1 BR, view east, no balcony or 188.00 Mirador 1 BR, pool bay view, 1BR no balcony??? Thanks. Have a family and need a place at the beach. Help, please advise.
re: Mirador, make sure you check it out during the weekends to make sure the crowd is what you want for your family and that any next door Mondrian construction issues aren’t a bother.
Also, I get a feeling the Mondrian may be one of those projects that never gets finished so make sure you are OK with all possibilities.
Are you looking at unit 1031 Mirador?
Lucas, I’m sure you noticed this… is http://blog.realestateoncredit.com you?
Looks like he is talking about line 31 in 1200 Mirador.
Hold off a bit and you can get a unit with balcony for about same price soon. Everything in that building is for sale.
JL, why do you say that Mondrian will never get completed. I see work going on there everyday. It is frustratingly slow though. You know something others dont?
bc: this blog is fine. The focus of this blog is condos for sale and not on the housing market in general (even though comments for each condo for sale end up addressing housing market in general). It is not like other blogs where multiple topics are posted daily. If you want that, check out these blogs:
http://thehousingbubbleblog.com/index.html
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/
http://nychousingbubble.blogspot.com/
There is always a slow news period every now and then. Newspapers and TV stations suffer from that time to time. This blog is alive and well.
Just a fodder for thought:
I noticed a job ad put up by Setai this Sunday. They are asking for an experienced and blah blah Security Guard ans Valet runners. And guess how much they are offering? $8 an hour for valet and $12 an hour for the security gaurd. These are slave wages by SOBE standards (or any big American city standards). This is not some low end Bay Garden manor at 1250 West we are talking about. This is SETAI. The definition of luxury with $500 a night hotel rooms and sick prices on food and everything else. They should die of shame for even advertising such low wages they are paying their employees. or may be this is Miami, where filthy rich people with no soul paying slave wages to their lowly employees?
AJ… thanks for the recommendation… any thoughts on South Bay Club, 850 feet at about 186 a foot? Seems reasonable. I like the toned down atmosphere compared to Mirador. South Bay Club is built like a tank. I’ve done some homework and know real estate but am down the wire with what I will buy. I do agree to wait on a direct bay view at Mirador but will South Bay Club ever offer that product? Its a much more stable building management and tenant wise. Thanks. Jerry, Baton Rouge
Honestly I didnt do much research on south bay club. Their bay side pool area looks good. I saw a couple of units there back in 2004. The price you are quoting obviously are not for a bayview unit I suppose. It is not a bad price for that building.
Does it have a heated pool? It is a big requirement for me.
Mirador owners are so excited about the Mondrian but they did not realize that Mondrian screwed them over 2 ways
1. The only heated pol in that building was the center pool and now the hotel will make it out of bounds for the north and south tower residents. Both the end pools are freezing cold and no wonder there is never anyone there.
2. They cut off the bay walk so north and south tower denizens cannot walk accross to each others facilities.
So next time some Mirador guy proudly talks about Mondrian coming up next door, tell them how the Mondrian F’ed them over.
Coming back to heated pools, i am very surprised that many high end buildings on West avenue dont have them.
This is what I found so far. I really appreciate if other fill in for what i couldnt find out:
1. Floiridia; Bay level pool is Freezing cold
2. Floridian Upper level pool: Dont know if heated or not.
3. South Bay club: Dont know
4. Seagate Towers: Dont know
5. Mirador: 2 freezing cold pools
6. Bayview Terrace: Heated Pool
7. Bay Garden Manor: Dont Know
8. Waverly: Freezing Cold Pool
9. Flamingo: Dont Know
Can somone please tell us if the pools in the “dont know” column are actually heated or not/
Thanks
AJ,
I’m not sure why you are so concerned with a heated pool? do you live in Miami? during the summer the last thing I want is a heated pool, when it feels like 100 degrees outside and i can fry an egg on the floor I want the pool as cold as possible.
Waverly has a heated pool. It is in the process of being fixed. Definitely a bonus for the building!
watchful eye writes, “KEVIN TOMLINSON……….. THANK’S FOR RUINING A WONDERFUL INFORMATIVE BLOG.YOU ARE A JEALOUS QUEER THAT IS JUST TRYING TO MILK LUCAS’S BLOG for your own gain. SHAME ON YOU.
Give us some more details. How is he ruining. Maybe real estate agents should not be posting on this blog, piggy backing on Lucas’s hard work.
If Lucas is in court this week VS Tibor, I am sure he will give us an update. There are many people that probably want to throw a lawsuit against Lucas so they get in the limelight, but remember there is only one original “A” h@le
JL & AC, Thanks. Jerry Harper
Hi Raffi,
That is only in summer. Have you ever tried to get into a non heated pool from oct-may? The cold will sting. I spend 1-2 hours a day swimming all through the year. So I need a heated pool during winter months. So the first thing I check is if the building has a heated pool before I buy. I guess it is not a priority for many other people.
Generalmagic, thanks for the info on Waverly.
500 Brickell…..I am a unit owner in 500 Brickell and just saw that prices took a big nosedive two weeks ago…from $278K to $220K for a one bedroom; (ad in herald)……was told this week that closings begin May12th. from 34th floor on down….confident will be a strong building….more high end than a lot of product on brickell, good location, larger units, very good amenities., strong developer (Related) they do things right….feel investment and as an end user will be good mid to long term….anyone’s thoughts? anyone know anything else on this building?
Hi ED, If the developer slashed prices for unsold units, demand that you get the same deal too. He should let you close for the price he is offering his unsold units.
not very high on 500 biscayne. the halo would drive me nuts if i had a window facing the interior courtyard of the building. in terms of the units, they don’t seem to be very original in appearance. if i’m buying in that area and i want something nice, i’d hold out and see how epic/icon or even met 1 play out before looking at 500. there will still be deals at 500.
Ed,
Sorry if I sound rude, however, we got scalped with 500-B. You may have been lucky enough not to have paid the $40-$50 PER SQ. FT. PREMIUM for units facing Brickell (over identical sq. ft. prices for identical units on the west end of the building). I was not so lucky!
Paid over $350 sq.ft. for high floor on Brickell. Would b e lucky to get $250 for it today. As of February 2007, there were 162 units up for “resale”. Mine sat on their “list” for seven months without so much as a phone call.
Only phone call was from the Related sales manager, who sold me the unit, with some cock-and-bull about how he had PERSONALLY bought and sold a Brickell-facing unit for his own account!
Doubtful, considering the fact that shortly after the “second deposit”, they announced ICON and the premium went “poof”.
They sold approximately 110 units at a “premium” averaging $50,000 for a view of the ICON which blocks out the sun! That’s $5.5 MILLION of questionable $$$.
I would like to be in a position to shrug my shoulders and say “F…. these people!” but instead have to go get the lawyers and wait two years!
I really doubt I am alone in this one!
ED,
I TOO HAVE PURCHASED A UNIT AT 500 BRICKELL IN THE WEST TOWER FACING SOUTH. I BELIEVE I PAID ABOUT 320.00 PER SQ FT IN THE UNIT (2004 PRICING). BUT JUST BEACUSE THEY SAY THE 1 BEDROOMS START AT 220’S DOESNT MEAN THEY HAVE THAT INVENTORY TO SELL. THEY PROBABLY HAD ONE UNIT AT 229 SOLD IT AND THE NEXT BARGAIN WOULD BE A ONE BEDROOM AT 250.. REMEMBER THEY JUST PUT THAT IN THE HERALD FOR A SALES STRATEGY WHEN PEOPLE GO IN THE SALES CENTER THEY SAY” SORRY WE NOW START IN THE 250’S” BUT I DO AGREE WITH YOUR COMMENTS ON THE BUILDING IT IS NICE AND VERY WELL DEVELOPED AITH NICE AMENITIES AND EVERYTHING….
AJ,
RELATED GROUP? DO U THINK THEY WILL EVEN ENTERTAIN THE IDEA OF HAVING YOU CLOSE ON YOUR UNIT LESS THEN WHAT THE CONTRACT STATES, EVEN IF THEY ARE ASKING FOR LESS PER SQ FT NOWADAYS. ITS RELATED GROUP, VERY STRONG DEVELOPER, AND MONEY HUNGRY TOO
i also forgot to ask.. which building did related begin to sell first in the 500 brickell project.. the east or the west tower. which tower began selling units first?
Just when you thought the Miami condo market was dead, dead, dead, here are two transactions that closed in the last two weeks, as reported in the Miami Daily Business Review:
Miami Beach condo sold for $6.7 million
Address: 5959 Collins Ave., Unit 3004, Miami Beach
Property type: Three-bedroom, 5,685-square-foot condo built in 2006
Price: $6.7 million, $1,178.54 per square foot
Seller: Peter Coakley and Katherine Coakley
Buyer: Carmen V. Romero and Donna C. Romero
Past sales: $5.6 million in March 2006
Miami Beach condo dealt for $4.75 million
Address:100 South Pointe Drive, Unit 1205, Miami Beach
Property type: Two-bedroom, 1,869-square-foot condo built in 2002
Price: $4.75 million, $2,541.47 per square foot
Seller: Stephen D. Ferguson and Maria Ferguson
Buyer: Mirjana Leonard
Past sales: $980,000 in December 2003
JR56 asked: “which tower began selling units first?”
500-B “east” and “west” were sold at the same time. Early 2005, unless they were running a “pump and dump” scam for the South Americans.
************************************
ALSO: RELATED HAS VOLUNTARILY DISMISSED ITS “CLAW-BACK” SUITS FILED AGAINST REALTORS in Dec. 2007 over “Non-closers” commissions paid to RE agents.
I would guess some judge threatened to toss them out of court.
***************************************
Hey AJ,
thx for the tip……I will see what I can do…if u have any experience, please let me know or an attorney to contact…
JCrimes,
comparable to a some of the new product on brickell, Plaza and the Avenue, for example, think the 500 Brickell project stands out..higher end finishes….also have a south facing unit in West tower, so shouldn’t be blinded by the Halo….def Icon will be nicer but out of my price range…
Un-Related,
Got the 1/1 as a resale about a year ago for $320 PSF….I thought a bargain at the time and snatched it up…sorry to hear about the “premium” as my view will be blocked in a couple years by Brickell Finan Centre Tower II
JR56,
Not sure what I can do to demand a lower price as I have a contract in writing for what I paid…any thoughts? suggestions?
Candela wrote: “Just when you thought the Miami condo market was dead, dead, dead, here are two transactions that closed in the last two weeks”
Put down the Kool-Aid, stop comparing oranges to watermelons, and figure out a way to put any of the new Brickell projects on the back of a flatbed truck and move them to beachfront lots in SoBe. You will get rich quick!
Lucas,
C’mon! Where on the new posts?????
Un-Related, I suppose you are correct.
I’m just baffled that folks are still paying millions for condos down here, when the naysayers are all predicting doom and gloom through 2010.
Unless someone MUST buy a luxury condo down here (for business or mistress reasons) why in the world would they do so now?
Candela –
You have the wrong unit for the Continuum (100 S Pointe) transaction you posted.
Mirjana Leonard already owned unit 1205, purchased in 2003.
The unit that was purchased by Ms. Leonard from the Fergusons was #3003, which is a 3BR/4BA, 3,335 sf unit purchased last in 2003 for $1.7M. The deed is recorded at Book 26309, Page 909 in the public records. And the doc stamps show the sale to be $4M instead of the reported $4.75M. Works out to $1,200/sf.
Either way, I agree it’s a dumb purchase and the buyer will lose money when the unit declines in value. The top-end of the market will NOT be immune to the downturn.
I made a miscalcuation above – I didn’t realize that Dade has a $0.60 doc stamp fee instead of the usual $0.70. So, the price was in fact $4.75M, making the per/sf on that sale $1,424.
Based on Kevin Thomlinson’s input Lucas has been in court on his blog vs Tibor Hollow.
Any news on WCI Communities and Lucas?
Bonkers. So many better things to do with cash than waste it on SoFi nonsense.
This Blog is the best!!
I DO NOT LIKE KEVIN EITHER!
Lucas, i am looking foward to the new report of closings at the new buildings.
Good luck if you are in court !!!
thank youuuuuuuuuuuu
Ed & JR56,
Related today sent out a “pre-filled out” RENTAL AGREEMENT to lease out our Unit for $1950 per month AND Jesse Ottley gets a 5% commission!!
*****************
From: Frances Munoz
To: XXXXXXXXXX
Sent: Mon Apr 28 XX:XX:XX 2008
Subject: XXXX East Rental Listing
Hello,
Attached, please find required documents to list your unit in our rental program. Please sign/initial where indicated as per instructions to continue and send back either via this e-mail or via fax to the number listed below. Please note that price included in listing is a suggested number by Jesse Ottley according to what is renting now. Please advise if you wish to adjust…
Please “check off” to ensure proper execution…”
***************
Geez, I feel like I just won that e-mail Nigerian Lottery! I though Related was going to make me close on that unit before I could hire Jesse to lease it out? This is a friggen MIRACLE!!!
With that machismo, ole Jesse is becoming the “Reverand Wright of Real Estate”. Who the “F” do these bozos think they are?
At this point, I would not live in that building is they cut the price to today’s levels and let me live there free for a year……
That loser Kevin’s blog is ridiculous. “I was out with my extremely rich Italian clients…” Way to make it seem you have lots of prospects. Ridiculous! No one is dumb enough to pay these prices in the most overbuilt city in the most overbuilt state in the most overbuilt time in United States history. And that includes the 1920s crash. These mo-fos will be begging people with cash to pay $150 a square foot (adjusted for massive inflation that is coming in the next few years) after this mother of a recession gets on its way. The fun is only just beginning.
un-related,
the person who sold me my unit in 05 , despina, called me this afternoon and asked me if i considered renting my unit out…? i guess this is why she asked.
however i dont understand how that reads, what is the letter saying or asking you to do what?
JR56,
You asked: “however i dont understand how that reads, what is the letter saying or asking you to do what?”
Attached to the e-mail (above) was a “Agreement” signed by Ottley for us to sign to let Related lease the unit out.
Related ASSUMES we intend to close on the unit(s). They must have forgotten the old adage: NEVER ASSUME – It Makes an ASS (of) U (and) ME!
EVERY EFFORT is going to be made to RECOVER EVERY DIME POSSIBLE…
Is anyone living in an empty condo building? Check out this article; love the comments about the guy’s 22 year old girl friend.
http://www.tampabay.com/features/humaninterest/article473403.ece
Which is Miami’s loneliest condo?
Takes about 12 months to start seeing real movement in any of the new buildings.
Considering that many of them were “decorator ready,” by the time flooring, paint, and curtains area ready; at least two months in the making…
At least you have plenty of parking, and zero noise control when throwing parties in your corridor ….
UN RELATED
WELL GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.. IT SEEMS THE RELATED GROUP HAS COVERED THEIR ASSES GOOD WITH THIS CONTRACT.. AT LEAST FOR “MATERIAL CHANGES” ASPECTS OF IT. QUESTION IF YOU SIGN THAT AGREEMENT IS UR UNIT GUARANTEED TO RENT?
The funny story here is where in the word is eveyoen thinking we are goign to find all these renters?? Eveyone says ohh go ahead and rent it. First of you won’t recover your coverign costs you’ll actually lose. You’re lucky to get 60 – 70% of your carrying costs. Second, these rentals are still to high for most people $2000 plus or even $1800 for a 2bd 2 bd. So it’s the same thing oversupply of rentals too. Either way you look at it you doomed. You wil find a few renters but expect to take a big carrying cost hit and a gamble that RE will pick up which it prob wont cause you’re facign more inventory comming onlien which will further drive down rental prices which will make recoverign your carrying costs enough to just pay for your HOA and half of the taxes not to even touch your mortgage.
Good luck to all those that say they’ll rent their place out. Unlesss you offer a deal 2/2 in the $1200 – $1500 range.
BFG –
Can you amplify a bit on your opinion as to why the “top-end will NOT be immune to the downturn”? I’m starting to wonder, especially given recent closing prices at Continuum II and Apogee.
Nice article perez, I think the loneliest building in Miami is now the Opera Towers. I see about 10 lights on the south side.
BOR south. pretty quiet. same goes for latitude.
JR56,
You can’t be serious: “QUESTION IF YOU SIGN THAT AGREEMENT IS UR UNIT GUARANTEED TO RENT?”
NO and HELL NO! The ONLY GUARANTEE is that IF RCRS can rent your unit is that YOU PAY THEM 5% of GROSS. The chances of them renting a 1 BR for $1950 mo. are ZERO and NONE.
This unit “sat” with 175-200 others on a “resale list” for seven months with NOT ONE INQUIRY! Bastards would NOT let me list it at a loss of $50,000. (That manipulation is what I am having looked at.)
FACE IT. You are screwed if you get financing, close and live in it. You are more screwed if you finance, close, rent it for someone to “tear up”. Ask yourself this: “IS ANYONE GOING TO BE WILLING TO BUY YOUR “USED” UNIT TWO OR THREE YEARS FROM NOW – AT YOUR BREAKEVEN PRICE – WHEN THERE PROBABLY WILL BE “NEW” UNITS AVAILABLE?
That’s what I thought you would conclude…..
Samson said: “Can you amplify a bit on your opinion as to why the “top-end will NOT be immune to the downturn”?”
The reason is simple: history. We’ve had housing busts in the past. This one is unprecedented in size, but it’s still a classic asset bubble, and will pop classically.
The bottom line is, if you can’t justify the price increase with fundamentals (which these high-end condos can’t), then the price can’t hold.
The reason the top-end of the market is holding up better, price-wise, is that many of the owners are able to “ride it out” longer than people at the lower end. However, in every past real estate bust, the high end of the market was hit at least as bad as the lower end – usually much worse. It is the last domino to fall, but it will fall. History repeats itself.
Look at the market supply numbers (number of units for sale vs number sold) for the top-end of the market – they are much worse than the lower end. You can not ignore that.
What are the best condos in Brickell for owners with a dog? Brickell Key seems very dog friendly, as there are poop bag stations every 20 or so yards on the walking path. However, there is currently no dog park on the island, except for a private one for residents of Courvoisier Courts. Any plans by the city to build one in Brickell?
If any one knows who is interested in buying at ASIA-brickell please write. Available for sale 25th fl-02 line.
Monica, sorry for the long delay. Been off the radar all summer. Interested in the Asia. Let me know if there still interest in selling.