Vue at Brickell – Are Prices Finally Bottoming?

March 8, 2008 by Lucas Lechuga

Vue at Brickell

On May 24, 2007, I wrote a blog post entitled “Vue at Brickell – Overpriced or Insanely Overpriced?“. At the time, the average list price of condos available at Vue at Brickell was over $550 per square foot. As many of you now know, and as the blog post explains, the inflated list prices were a direct result of the rampant mortgage fraud that occurred in the building. Since that time, as more and more people became aware of the situation and as a large number of foreclosures in the building hit the market, prices at Vue at Brickell have come down like a ton of bricks.

There are now indications, however, that prices at Vue at Brickell may be close to reaching the bottom. Buyers are finally stepping in. Since the last week of January, there have been 7 condos at Vue at Brickell that went pending. With list prices of $190,000-$199,900 for 1 bedroom condos and $220,000-$249,900 for 2 bedroom condos, it makes sense that buyers are now beginning to accept the risks associated with buying a condo in a building that has a high number of foreclosures. It will be interesting to see the sales prices of these condos at Vue at Brickell once they close. It’ll give us a better indication as to the level of motivation of some of these banks.

Below you’ll find the best deals at Vue at Brickell:

  • 1 Bedrooms
    • Unit 2111 – short-sale – $162,500
    • Unit 1710 – short-sale – $162,500
    • Unit 1211 – short-sale – $162,500
    • Unit 1413 – short-sale – $162,500
    • Unit 2307 – foreclosure – $205,000
  • 2 Bedrooms
    • Unit 1303 – short-sale – $229,900
    • Unit 1505 – short-sale – $250,000
    • Unit 1304 – short-sale – $279,900
  • 3 Bedrooms
    • Unit 3006 – short-sale – $357,000
    • Unit 3606 – foreclosure – $379,900

The mortgages of three of the four short-sale one bedroom units listed for $162,500 are held with the same lender. This may be an opportunity for an investor to grab all three for a bargain-basement price. There are currently only 8 condos available for rent at Vue at Brickell. Within the past 12 months, the lowest that a one bedroom has ever rented was $1,300 per month. The lowest that a 2 bedroom rented was $1,550 while 3 bedrooms condos bottomed at $2,500 per month.

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84 Comments on "Vue at Brickell – Are Prices Finally Bottoming?"


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Anonymous
8 years 6 months ago

Good sign.

No sense in delaying the inevitable.

Anonymous
Sideliner
8 years 6 months ago

My personal opinion is that price’ s will drop even lower…..quite a bit lower before it’ all over.Some seller’s are FINALLY coming to their senses and realizing that …….and pricing accordingly.The only way to know for sure is the sale’s report’s.Some of the buildindg’s I’ve been watching..haven’t had a sale since last year.Good luck to everyone buying and selling.

Anonymous
gables
8 years 6 months ago
i figured this building to be a good predictor of the bottom prices to be seen in the future. the low 2b prices seen in this building are well under $300k. my guess is this would indicate that most other new buildings, which may not have had the same issues as vue (massive foreclosure, speculation, fraud, delayed mainenance, etc) will price slightly higher at around $300k for a 2b. this will indicate the price point at which buyers can affordably buy into the market-also the price point that mortgage lenders will lend. deals will be had under $300k, but opportunity… Read more »
Anonymous
Drew
8 years 6 months ago

Lucas, how do you know that that those rental #’s are the “lowest” in the past year? What about all the private-party transactions that are taking place where there is no way for you to have knowledge of rental terms of those leases?

Anonymous
RALPH
8 years 6 months ago

MY FOREIGN CLIENTS WITH THE STRONG
EURO SUPPORT ARE GETTING SERIOUS ABOUT BUYING ANYONE WITH INTERESTING PLAN LET ME KNOW..I WOULD CONSIDER
SOME TYPE OF SYNDICATION FOR THEM

Anonymous
RA
8 years 6 months ago
Vue, altough is nice from the outside nothing architehtially stunning is still in a great location in Brickell. At that price it’s a steal. Yes, prob all the kitchens will all need updating as I believe this was first a rental building that turned to condos. It actually wasn’t called VUE before. Keep in mind the retial on the bottom floor is also gettinf full and you have a nice lounge downstairs called Badrutt’s Place which is owned by Europeans which they’ve done a beautiful job with the place. Decor is excellent and food is good too. My personal taste… Read more »
Anonymous
Seanjohn
8 years 6 months ago

Anybody know what the sales status at the Mondrian on West Ave on South Beach currently?

Anonymous
carbonblackcab
8 years 6 months ago

While some condos may appear to have bottomoed out, the housing market in general is far from bottoming out. The job market is taking a dive. School districts and local government is laying part-timers and contractors. As the prices of condos drop, the pool of qualified people who can buy is also dropping.

On a related note, does anyone have data on prices for brikell condos from 03 and 04. I am curious about the price point before the housing bubble started inflating.

Anonymous
Buyer Tom
8 years 6 months ago

It is too early to call a bottom in housing. Further price declines are inevitable since we are still above the long-term fundamentals. The question is not whether we will return to the fundamentals, the question is how far below them will this cycle take us?

I would be curious to see the numbers for how many months of homes are on the market right now? Was the Feb numbers posted anywhere?

Anonymous
Mr Waverly
8 years 6 months ago
FRAUD, FRAUD, FRAUD. The Vue among other buildings was used as an ATM, putting hundreds of thousands in the hands of thieves. It is disgusting that a few Realtors, Mortgage Brokers, Appraisers and Title Companies facilitated those transaction. Yes, rents are very low. Why? Because those committing fraud wanted to fill those units FAST to generate more dollars into their pockets. The heist of the decade. Contract 2-3 units, have the Title Company write an escrow deposit letter when really not a cent was put down, have your mortgage broker embellish your income and assets to qualify, create a second… Read more »
Anonymous
jcrimes
8 years 6 months ago

vue the pricing of the units that lucas listed is a little lower than what was sought when the building was first converted. the location is not bad but the units are entirely unimpressive. considering all the inventory that’s coming online in that area (e.g., infinity, axis, 1060, POB, BOS) along with all the current inventory, i’d wait rather than buy today at the vue.

Anonymous
Blind Mind
8 years 6 months ago

I still think these units will fall even further. Economy is bad right now and the condo supply in Miami far exceeds demand. Soon all of these buildings will be competing for the same consumer which means more price competition. Im looking forward to it.

Anonymous
Blind Mind
8 years 6 months ago

Oh, I forgot to at that a $645 maintenance fee for a 2br at Vue is absolutely absurd.

Anonymous
Sideliner
8 years 6 months ago

Mr. Waverly–jcrimes Blind Mind and other’s…I’m with you.we still can’t see the mirror’s for the smoke.I think were going to see $175 a sq. ft. very soon.Anybody else agree with that?

Anonymous
Lurker Tom
8 years 6 months ago

Blind Mind brings up a good point with the maintenance. This building was overrun by fraudsters who let maintenance go just as much as the mortgage.

Anybody out there know what the financial condition of this association is? Is that $645 likely to go up?

And another question… Just what the F happened to the fanfare of the Mayor’s mortgage fraud task force? Any of these guys going to jail or what? Not hard to figure out who they were…their names were on the freaking deeds.

Anonymous
Johnny Lawsuit
8 years 6 months ago

Bottoming? Is this comment a joke? Are you kidding, this market has a lot longer to drop, unless you talking beach front. The foreclosure district @Brickell has just started the drop. Your looking at 20 percent to 30 percent more drop. Banks are not loaning, regardless of how good someone’s credit is. And cash buyers are on the sidelines. New developments in California are now pricing at 35 percent off with no takers. Now they are trying auctions for property with still no takers. The same effect will start here on Brickell. Way to early to buy

Anonymous
Sideliner
8 years 6 months ago

Does anybody have any knowledge about 188th ST. in Aventura?? There are currently 5 project’s underway or completed on that street so far.I believe Uptown Marina Loft’s ….. The Atrium…. 3030 ….Eastside ….Artech….Any comment’s -recomendation’s -information would be very much appreciated.That is STILL a VERY PRICEY area from what I can see.Is something going on there that I don’t know about???

Anonymous
Johnny Lawsuit
8 years 6 months ago

Lurker Tom,

You write………..
“And another question… Just what the F happened to the fanfare of the Mayor’s mortgage fraud task force?”

You can try paging them during lunch at Capital Grille. I understand they usually sit at a large round table in front. They may have moved on to another restaurant, so best to check on this information. It may be inaccurate or not up to date.
If that does not work try the Miami Herald ,local coverage dept.
Goodluck!

Anonymous
Wild Bill
8 years 6 months ago

If I were a Realtor I would “lien” my clients away from anything in the City of Miami. If you know what I mean.

Anonymous
8 years 6 months ago

This is a great blog but I don’t see a lot of discussions on condos in South Beach. What do you guys think of the middle range condos in South Beach, eg: Mirador, Waverly ? Any signs they are bottoming out too ?

Is it true that the prices in South Beach are still holding up pretty good in comparison to downtown Miami?

Thanks

Anonymous
8 years 6 months ago

BTW, I just went to Bank of America for a mortgage last Thursday. A 30-year fixed is at 6.75% !!!!!!!! The rate has actually gone up substantially compared to one or two months ago. With 30 year rate at 6.75%, I don’t think the market will bottom out any time soon. Right now I suspect the only people who are buying are those who are paying with cash.

Anonymous
PL
8 years 6 months ago

Anyone heard anything about Perez of Related group raising money for a billion dollar vulture fund?

My guess being that REIT’s will purchase units in bulk from developers that have unit owners walk at 40/c on the dollar.

Converting entire buildings to rental. Sitting on them until they can condo convert seems feasible and economically advantageous. Should be a good holding period return and they get paid to wait. Only drawback is the amount needed to invest and a lockin of 5-10 years.

Anonymous
Johnny Lawsuit
8 years 6 months ago

Banks are not loaning on condos in south florida. Even if the buyer has the highest credit rating and lot’s of dough in the bank, the problems are the banks.
Probably one of the better options is self financing. You loan and finance the transaction yourself

Anonymous
8 years 6 months ago

JL

Did you just write that? Then Buyer Tom would be right.

The real estate market is over RIGHT NOW.

Anonymous
8 years 6 months ago

Johnny,

That’s just not true. A client of mine locked in a $1M jumbo loan with Bank of America at 5.2% a few weeks ago. No points, origination fee or prepayment penalty either.

Anonymous
Julian
8 years 6 months ago

Lucas,

It’s great there’s so much banter on your blog, but I got to tell you, and we’re all guilty of it to an extent, but if some of the sarcasm, digs, mud-slinging, my bank balance is bigger/smaller/multiples of yours etc, doesn’t get reeled in, people will end up bored, annoyed and then stop participating in your blog and we’ll all be the poorer for it.

Just my 2 Rmb worth.

Anonymous
8 years 6 months ago

Even though I’m guilty of some of that stuff too, I was just telling Lucas that five minutes ago.

Anonymous
8 years 6 months ago

PL
I was just talking to a very large company who owns rental towers in NYC.

Here’s the issue (big): a portion of the units will already be closed. So the units are all condos already.

Related will end up being a landlord by default. Here’s the big problem: for rentals they built the units “too fancy-schmancy” and they will/are gonna lose the a**es because of the actual market rate for that unit.

Bad times for Related…Bad times.

Anonymous
Julian
8 years 6 months ago
Kevin Do you think that let’s say in a tower of 100 units, 50 close and 35 are up for re-sale that we will reach a point where the developer and banks take a view such as this: – Developer buys out the 50 units at xx cents in the dollar, as agreed with the bank. – The banks writes off the remaining % from the condo owner, just as they’d really have to if all these places foreclosed one by one. – The Developer now owns 100% of the condo and turns it rental. The bank takes a direct… Read more »
Anonymous
8 years 6 months ago

Julian

I agree–ultimately, in some cases, banks will end up owning the projects.

Like that one in Dadeland…I don’t go over the bridge, but I think it’s Downtown Dadeland.

Anonymous
8 years 6 months ago

Julian

I think it would be interesting if developer would “cancel” the project, or let the buyers who wanted out, out and dissolved the condominium and made them rental towers.

Anonymous
8 years 6 months ago
Anonymous
Johnny Lawsuit
8 years 6 months ago

Julian,
I don’t care how much US money you have, that does not matter. Tell me how much Euro you have.

Anonymous
BFG
8 years 6 months ago
I agree with Kevin – I don’t see how Related is going to get out of this unscathed. Even holding the units as rentals is a money-losing proposition. Unless Perez cleverly uses that “vulture” fund to bail out his own condos using other “smart money” Latin American investors’ money. Today I walked all through Brickell. Sure was quiet – other than the sound of construction on the new condos. Not many people around at all. The last thing that would have come to my mind, looking at all the empty and soon-to-be finished condos, was “we’re nearing the bottom”.
Anonymous
Blind Mind
8 years 6 months ago

$645 for maintenance is absurd, plain and simple. Unless, of course, Im being greeted by the Playmate of the Month who is there to give me oral pleasure while I read the paper in the morning. What needs to be maintained for that amount of cash?

Im loving the price drops, especially in that shithole we call downtown. Reality is not far away!

Anonymous
Generalmagic
8 years 6 months ago
I don’t get it. Even when the bottom happens it is not like prices are going to jump up again and people will be buying and flipping. I think when the bottom does happen it will stay for some time. So what if I missed the best price when the bottom happens. Even if I purchase a unit $10k over the bottom price, big deal especially if I take a 30 year mortgage. Right now if you purchase a one bedroom for $300K and only rent it at best for $2k month you still have negative carry that I think… Read more »
Anonymous
Generalmagic
8 years 6 months ago

I also think the maintenance in some of these buildings is out of control. Some 2 bedrooms on the beach have a maintenance of $1000 per month for like 1,300 square feet. Yeah yo may get perks like internet, cable parking etc. It is a big factor on why some of these units are not selling.

Anonymous
carbonblackcab
8 years 6 months ago
BFG..wheni moved to miami, I looked at many condos on brikell and the reason I did not buy there was the simple fact that place is empty after 6 pm and on weekends. When all the business are open during weekdays, there seems to be traffic, but after that the place is dead. I have been checking out Zillow.com to see prices for condos in brickell area for the past few years and in my very informal research have noted that most condos doubled in value from 03 to 08. Needless to say, that price point is not sustainable. It… Read more »
Anonymous
8 years 6 months ago

The post had nothing to do with prices “bottoming” in the overall real estate market in Miami. It only dealt with prices at Vue at Brickell. I don’t think you can say that prices for condos in various condos buildings in Miami will all bottom at the same time. Certain buildings will reach a bottom much quicker than others.

Anonymous
Mr Waverly
8 years 6 months ago
The Mayor’s mortgage fraud task force was created to put someone’s cousin, niece or nephew on the city payroll. I personally tracked 18 units that when listed on the MLS had prices between $520K to $580K, after those same units closed the public records showed sale prices at $820K to $840K. Someone pocketed $250K to $300K. I first called the Mayor’s Mortgage Fraud Task Force office to report this and only got a voice mail. Then I scanned the MLS listings and public records and then sent it to them in an Email. I later followed up with another messages… Read more »
Anonymous
Johnny Lawsuit
8 years 6 months ago

Mr. Waverly,

I told you Capital Grill, third table on the left. Large round table!
If that fails, Miami-Herald city beat. Lucas can help you. Lucas’s real “calling” (he does not realize it yet) is investigative journalism. IN FACT LUCAS should be writing for the Herald.

Anonymous
Generalmagic
8 years 6 months ago

Lucas,

You team up with Mr. Waverly. Sounds like he know what he is talking about. He sounds passionate and neds help!

Anonymous
PL
8 years 6 months ago
Kevin, I see two scenarios. One being that all the units close to different banks. Most foreclose, leaving 30 different banks holding the bag of 200+ units in a building. A single buyer (REIT or investor) would be unwilling to negotiate in seperate party transactions. If anyone remembers that 12-plex on south shore drive all owned by different banks. A nightmare getting them to agree to think cohesively. Or The marble floors and beautiful lobby seem excessive for a rental only if you as a landlord pay full price. A developer with a tower slated for completion at the end… Read more »
Anonymous
PL
8 years 6 months ago

I believe that Perez wouldn’t be buying his own towers. Someone needs to take a hit and preferably it’s not your own development company.

Let the bank take the hit, then swoop in for the bargain.

Anonymous
BFG
8 years 6 months ago
Mr. Waverly: I think you’re right: the “task force” really is not interested – they don’t have a real incentive to be. The banks and investors who bought the CDOs are the ones holding the bag on this. I think they’re the ones who have to get the ball rolling on this issue. However, they’re so busy just trying to stay alive right now, the last thing they’re probably worried about is “getting revinge” on the fraudsters. I think their focus right now is preventing further fraud, and figuring out how to get out of the mess they’re already in.… Read more »
Anonymous
8 years 6 months ago

To: HairSite

South Beach has its fair share of troubles – take Flamingo for example – it was touted as biggest condo conversion ever (in FL) – and what happened – they managed to convert South tower – but canceled North (& Center).

Compared to Brickell – South Beach is holding up better – but looking at Flamingo one might think that we are running out of interested Eurpean investors because:
Dollar will still continue to drop
Prices are still high (looking at monthly rent in SoBe – it is up to 3 times cheaper to rent than buy).

Anonymous
BFG
8 years 6 months ago
PL said: “Let the bank take the hit, then swoop in for the bargain.” I agree completely. Any one of these “vulture” investors that buys from anyone other than the bank (after foreclosure), they’re paying too much. If the developer is able to keep from losing the building to foreclosure, and it makes sense to hold onto it and either rent or try to sell the remaining units, then why wouldn’t the developer do that themselves rather than let a “vulture” profit from it? The answer is that it DOESN’T make sense, and the “vulture” investor would really be the… Read more »
Anonymous
cyrus
8 years 6 months ago
never through any market runup such as the one we have had in real estate, has there been ANY sort of recovery until some in the undustry are jailed … and some big players in the field have gone bankrupt – NEITHER of which we’ve seen so far … when Angelo Mozilo is put in jail, when WCI some other builder goes bust – then and ONLY then will we know that slowly things start to bottom out. some of this reality will hit when the stock markets start to massively puke in ways that’s not comprehensible by the masses.… Read more »
Anonymous
jcrimes
8 years 6 months ago

cyrus
come on, no one deserves to go to jail…at least based on the facts that have been presented so far.

as for bankruptcy, well, levitt and tousa are already in. my guess, wci barely avoids it (like american airlines a few years back). if they were going to file, it would have been better to do before starting closings on OBH.

Anonymous
8 years 6 months ago

At $165k, $645 maintenance, $1400 rent and 20% down these 1bd are more or less at the break even. Correct me if i am wrong.

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