60 responses so far ↓

• 1 Kevin /Dec 11, 2007 at 2:04 am  Vote:    

  Wow, Lucas-
  Well I’m sure wherever you go they will appreciate you more.

  Good luck!

• 2 simon /Dec 11, 2007 at 5:13 am  Vote:    

  donald trump said :never give up,it is a key to my success .your truthful comments and reporting are the best of any miami broker.

• 3 perez /Dec 11, 2007 at 8:42 am  Vote:    

  Good Decision. Your untainted analysis and disclosure makes you stand out among your peers, and brings you publicity and a level of trust other agents should envy.

• 4 ignacio /Dec 11, 2007 at 8:53 am  Vote:    

  I agree with Perez, if I need a realtor, or anybody I know needs one I will for sure give them your contact and give the best references. Even when we have never met I totally trust your jugdement in any real estate transaction.

  They are the one that think that if nobody talks about the market will get better, naive people

• 5 cyrus /Dec 11, 2007 at 8:54 am  Vote:    

  what a loss for them! your candid comments about market reality is what sets you apart … terrible loss for your old firm. when i am ready to buy, i am calling you and no one else. the sales business is tricky … either you’re honest and forthright and build up a proper business or you’re a charlatan. aparently they don’t understand this. best of luck!

• 6 pedro /Dec 11, 2007 at 9:23 am  Vote:    

  I’ve always loved your blog. But was surprised when I started seeing your broker post comments in reaction to your reader’s post. I found it completely unethical. And given your integrity, I was surprised you allowed it. For those interested, the broker posts under “tom or thomas”.
  Keep on fighting, and good luck with your new company.

• 7 rrsafety /Dec 11, 2007 at 10:13 am  Vote:    

  Your blog is the future and you’ve made the correct decision. I have read other blogs by agents and they are obviously “good news only” blogs that are basically fraudulent. This blog, on the other hand, seeks to find nuggets of truth in the market and when people disagree with you, they are free to express that in the comments section. I think your broker’s office is making a mistake, but that is one they’ll have to deal with. Should I be in the market for real estate in your area, I wouldn’t think twice to use you or to recommend you to others. Your site is a breath of fresh air in the industry and an office would be lucky to get you.

  When will some real estate people learn that disagreement and different opinions - though sometimes harsh - aren’t a bad thing?

  Best of luck!!

• 8 Ignacio /Dec 11, 2007 at 10:21 am  Vote:    

  We just hope you keep your blog. You are the the top entry for “miami condo investment” in google right now, IMHO that is the best PR ever!

  Just do not take too long before the next post

• 9 Ignacio /Dec 11, 2007 at 10:22 am  Vote:    

  Out of curiosity, can you post the name of your broker?

• 10 Hisham /Dec 11, 2007 at 10:45 am  Vote:    

  Hi Lucas, I follow your blog on a daily basis from Beirut, Lebanon! I very much enjoy the inside information I get on the Miami market. Keep the good work and make sure you tell us about your new blog address and contact. Thanks and good luck

• 11 rrsafety /Dec 11, 2007 at 11:09 am  Vote:    

  BTW, I disagree with Pedro above. If Lucas’ broker wants to post here with an opinion, the more the merrier. You might think they have a vested interest in keeping the market up, but there are a number of posters here who like to talk the market down. Everyone should have their say…. (even stealth brokers)…

• 12 pedro /Dec 11, 2007 at 11:20 am  Vote:    

  rrsafety,
  I agree the broker can post his comments here. But he should not call people with different views than his “hacks”….

• 13 Lucas Lechuga /Dec 11, 2007 at 11:48 am  Vote:    

  Hisham - The blog address will remain the same. The blog belongs to me so I can take it with me to whichever office I join. Same thing goes with my email address.

  Thank you for all of the feedback everyone!

• 14 Thomas /Dec 11, 2007 at 11:54 am  Vote:    

  For anyone who is interested, all you have to do is look at past posts of Lucas’ to see who we are. We are not hiding, nor do we believe that only one opinion is important. Lucas focuses his posts on investors and our business model is based on helping sellers. Unfortunately sometimes those models are at odds from a marketing perspective. We will continue to follow what Lucas posts, becuase it is usually very realistic. We just believe that if you are going to market a customer’s property for sale, then you have to believe in it to do so. Lucas - we wish you the best of luck.

  Tom Grimshaw
  Broker/Owner
  Real Living Properties

• 15 brett /Dec 11, 2007 at 12:16 pm  Vote:    

  Their lose.
  Too bad, I guess they don’t want to hear what the reality of market conditions that exist. I really appreciate the honesty of what you have to say.
  New York

• 16 Real Estate Blogger Says - Take This Job And Shove It, I Ain’t Working Here No More /Dec 11, 2007 at 12:35 pm  Vote:    

  [...] move to another brokerage after his broker wanted to play censor. As I understand it, the split was amicable. A win for both sides I suppose. But, I would add that Lucas appears to be an above average real [...]

• 17 Magic City Harvard Lawyer /Dec 11, 2007 at 12:58 pm  Vote:    

  Lucas - congrats on a bold decision and following your gut. I am sure you will be happy you did when you look back on this time years from now.

  Jared

• 18 ana /Dec 11, 2007 at 2:01 pm  Vote:    

  i think this is a very informative blog and i as a possible investor can make intelligent decisions. the on slaught of the sub prime and housing market crisis is that both mortgage brokers and developers along with banks got greedy and showed no ethics (not all but many). Pride cometh before a fall. shame on those brokers for not seeing that and those that continue to do so.

• 19 laura /Dec 11, 2007 at 2:52 pm  Vote:    

  good luck with your decision. I appreciate your blog very much

• 20 Brian /Dec 11, 2007 at 3:11 pm  Vote:    

  Good luck..its probably for the best.

  Put it this way…I’ve never ever heard of Real Living Properties. But I have heard of Lucas Lechuga.

• 21 rrsafety /Dec 11, 2007 at 3:36 pm  Vote:    

  Thanks to Tom Grimshaw for chiming in. Hope he continues to post here. The more perspectives we have, the better.

• 22 Dave /Dec 11, 2007 at 4:35 pm  Vote:    

  Looking forward to the continuation of a very informative blog. Good luck Lucas!

• 23 JR /Dec 11, 2007 at 6:30 pm  Vote:    

  Not an easy decision, but the correct one for sure.
  Well done.

• 24 Lucas Lechuga /Dec 11, 2007 at 8:03 pm  Vote:    

  My brokers and I have left on good terms. They have a different vision for the Real Living brand and I wish them well.

  I decided last night which office I will join. I just need to complete the paperwork and submit it to their office.

• 25 joma3700 /Dec 11, 2007 at 8:20 pm  Vote:    

  Lucas, get your broker’s license and open your own company. Why reward another broker with your hard work. Your customers will follow you. Good luck.

• 26 BB /Dec 11, 2007 at 9:12 pm  Vote:    

  I’d like to echo some of the previous comments.

  There are lots of real estate agent blogs on the internet. This is one of the very few that I check regularly. The realistic and fact-based approach to the Miami condo market is what drew in many of your readers, including me, in the first place.

  You come across as more trustworthy than most of the cheerleader-type salesman who take the “slash-and-burn” approach to real estate sales (like telling buyers anything to make a sale). I think that the straight-shooting agents will attract many more clients and make a lot more money over the next several years than the all-too-common “Glengary Glen Ross”-type guys. They will attract more buyers, get more repeat business, and benefit from referrals if their customers believe they are being honest with them, rather than simply uttering the overused Realtor catchphrases about “there’s never been a better time to buy”, etc.

  There will be many great deals to be had in the coming years. If I were in the market for a condo, I would want the agent with the most comprehensive knowledge of the market and someone who I could trust to show me the best deals–more of a “market researcher” than just a “salesman”. I believe you fit that criteria.

  So, in summary, you are certainly making the correct choice and keep up the good work. It will certainly pay off.

• 27 Rosemarie /Dec 11, 2007 at 9:26 pm  Vote:    

  Their loss…..Good Luck in your new office!

• 28 Lucas Lechuga /Dec 11, 2007 at 9:38 pm  Vote:    

  Joma,

  I may get my brokers license just to have it but I have zero intention of ever opening my own office. Too many headaches! I want to work with buyers and sellers, not manage an office full of Realtors. The commission that an office earns off of me is well worth it in my opinion.

• 29 Howard Scott /Dec 11, 2007 at 10:02 pm  Vote:    

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  As one of the most respected and well known Contract Rescission law firms in the state, we have been very successful at resolving the majority of our case load without entering a drawn out lawsuit or court proceeding with the very well funded Real Estate Development companies.
  Positive negotiations have been the keys to our success in this arena of law.
  You will find, that a partial Deposit Recovery and contract rescission will usually be a more appropriate financial decision than an all or nothing litigators approach.

  To date (as of 12/11/07) all of our deposit recovery clients have been taken on with a “contingency” fee structure. We only get paid if you recover some or all of your deposit.

  Again, we do not want to “make a name for ourselves” in the court system, we are here to inform you of your legal rights and negotiate a contract rescission and deposit recovery on your behalf. But, be sure, if a developer is unwilling to negotiate a resolution in good faith, we will fight using whatever means necessary, including litigation, to insure our clients rights are protected.

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• 30 SA /Dec 11, 2007 at 10:02 pm  Vote:    

  Lucas, I follow your blog on a daily basis from Ottawa, Canada. I do that for a good reason: I am planning to buy a Condo in Miami and I am informed by and impressed with your analysis.

  You have the best Miami real estate blog on the internet.

  I look forward to more critical analysis to help me make a good decision.

• 31 stephen /Dec 11, 2007 at 10:48 pm  Vote:    

  Good for you . You will do well wherever you go. Your old bosses can you know what to you know where.

• 32 Chris /Dec 11, 2007 at 11:15 pm  Vote:    

  Wow!

  I know that I make a lot of negative comments about the properties listed because I have a blog about the housing bubble and crash, so of course, I see the market from a more pessimistic viewpoint.

  That being said, Lucas is the closest you will find to an ” honest realtor “. Which is why I enjoy this blog so much because even though he is in the business to make money from real estate he will still admit to when a unit is overpriced.

  Lucas, leaving your job in order to preserve the quality of your blog shows a lot of integrity and you earned my respect.

  I will keep coming here and give my opinion that prices must continue to crash another 50% in Miami.

  However, I will be doing it on the best Realtor blog around.

  Lucas puts the REAL in REALTOR.

  Goodjob Lucas!

• 33 Chris /Dec 11, 2007 at 11:21 pm  Vote:    

  BTW Lucas,

  When Condo prices in Miami do fall to 150 a sq foot, I will be buying one, and you will be the Realtor I use.

• 34 Lucas Lechuga /Dec 12, 2007 at 12:13 am  Vote:    

  Thank you Chris for your valued feedback. I read Chris’ blog periodically and enjoy his insight and humor on the current real estate market. As he pointed out, he does have a more pessimistic view of the market but I enjoy his opinions and comments nonetheless. I doubt that he’ll ever be buying a condo through me, however, because I don’t think newly constructed condos in Miami will ever fall to $150 per square foot to end-users unless he’s looking to buy in Hialeah. Bulk buyers may be able to buy at $150 psf, in some areas of Miami, but I highly doubt that end-users will ever be able to obtain a newly constructed condo in a nice neighborhood for $150 psf.

• 35 Antonio /Dec 12, 2007 at 12:19 am  Vote:    

  Glad to hear you are sticking with your gut. This is one of the only blogs I follow.. Why? Because it really talks about what is going on. I think the media down here is sugar coating everything.

  I think nothing will be resolved until people really know what is going on. I am a computer programmer who survived the dot.com bust. It wasn’t pretty, and for everyone who said the real estate boom wasn’t like the dot.com boom is dead wrong.

  Best of luck.. Your analysis is the best information I have seen so far as to what is going on.

• 36 Lucas Lechuga /Dec 12, 2007 at 12:28 am  Vote:    

  Antonio - I’m just a street-level guy reporting it as I see it. However, I don’t think much of the media is sugar-coating it. In fact, many Realtors have been upset lately that the media has been too pessimistic about the market. I guess it all depends on what you’re reading though. Like I said, I’m just reporting the market like I see it from the perspective of an agent on the street.

• 37 DAVID /Dec 12, 2007 at 1:50 am  Vote:    

  Honesty always wins out in the end! As you can
  notice from the thoughts of the previous
  responders.

• 38 Lucas Lechuga /Dec 12, 2007 at 2:39 am  Vote:    

  By the way, I was hoping to wait until tomorrow to reveal which office I decided to hang my license with but the information was leaked Tuesday afternoon to the Sellsius Blog (http://blog.sellsiusrealestate.com/).

  Yes, it is true that I will be joining EWM but it is not true that I’ll be joining their Miami Beach office. I concentrate mainly on Brickell, Brickell Key, Park West and the Downtown areas of Miami. I do some business in Miami Beach but concentrate mainly on the aforementioned areas.

  Instead, I’ll be joining the newly opened EWM Brickell office located in Mary Brickell Village. The location of that office is ideal for me. It is located in the heart of Brickell. Mary Brickell Village will eventually be the new CocoWalk of Miami.

  I will write a post about this decision within the next couple of day but just wanted to let everyone know that the rumors are for the most part true.

• 39 llafata /Dec 12, 2007 at 11:45 am  Vote:    

  Lucas, I find your blogs to be highly insightful, honest and “spot on.” For your broker to censor your blog AND take a percentage is too much. We need more honesty and less Big Brother!!! Good luck in your new office, can’t wait to hear about your future successes!

• 40 Dave /Dec 12, 2007 at 12:48 pm  Vote:    

  Lucas: Congratulations on your move to EWM and I join the chorus as to your honesty and wisdom. I can’t agree with Thomas that your views are antithetical to a seller’s RE firm. Sellers need to know when times are good AND bad, if they are going to make rational decisions of how best to sell. I have bought and sold many homes over my lifetime in good and bad markets. In each case, a realistic broker that told me the truth and not the usual stock lines was my best ally! I am sure you will be a success at the new firm and will heartily reccommend you to anyone I know looking for a condo investment in Miami.

• 41 Julio Bonilla /Dec 12, 2007 at 1:20 pm  Vote:    

  Good Luck Lucas. Love your blog and will continue to follow it regardless.

• 42 JM /Dec 12, 2007 at 4:07 pm  Vote:    

  Lucas, I’m sure it won’t affect your business in the slightest. Good luck at the new office. It sounds like a good idea for you to part ways if Real Living is focused on sellers and you’re more of a buyer’s broker.

• 43 Samir Patel /Dec 12, 2007 at 4:22 pm  Vote:    

  Good Luck Lucas! I’m sure EWM will provide great support to you. But you should have joined their beach office. That’s where I started my career.

• 44 Lucas Lechuga /Dec 12, 2007 at 4:31 pm  Vote:    

  Thanks Samir. The beach office definitely has the big guns in this industry but the Brickell office was the logical choice for me because I primarily focus on the Miami side of the causeway. The Brickell office is newly opened and it will take some time for it to become a powerhouse but I think its location makes it inevitable that it will become that very soon.

• 45 Steve /Dec 12, 2007 at 5:33 pm  Vote:    

  Lucas,

  I must say I will never do business with a broker that censors its agent’s honest comments. Real estate is all about “the good, the bad and the ugly.” You are a rare and true buyer’s agent and it is their significant loss. I look forward to your insight and establishment with a far more enlightened broker.
  Steve

• 46 Sylvia /Dec 12, 2007 at 7:24 pm  Vote:    

  I can agree with all the comments made above about your honesty and integrity, which equal character. Speaking the truth and not being afraid will continure to open doors for you. When I’m ready to buy I will surely look you up.
  Blessings to you at your new job. I hope they realize who they are getting.

• 47 Thomas /Dec 12, 2007 at 8:40 pm  Vote:    

  Lucas - what you failed to disclose to all of your loyal fans is that we did not ask you to censor your blog or the comments. It’s a very simple equation that EWM and any other Broker where you hang your license will also wrestle with. How does a Realtor whose opinion is a continued market delcine make a living?

  Your insistence you the truth is what made you popular and it is why I always follow your blog. We have never had an issue with the truth. We learned about integrity at EWM ourselves.

  The point is only that you are hanging your license with a Broker so that you can earn a living selling real estate. What I have not been able to figure out is whetheryour predictions for futher drastic declines may or may not be true. We will all have to see. But if a buyer is to believe that you are indeed correct, then you will have to find another income while you wait until the buyers believe that the time is right to buy. We only wanted you to see the inherent contradiction with trying to make a living as a Realtor(even a very realistic one) while predicting publicly the continued fall of the market. It may be true. It just does not make sense to try and do both. But good luck to you. You certainly have a loyal following. We’ll see you on the street.

• 48 Blanca /Dec 12, 2007 at 8:52 pm  Vote:    

  Hola Lucas,

  Your reputation is your honor where a price tag cannot be attached, honesty is the best policy. Best of luck.

• 49 Jurgen /Dec 12, 2007 at 8:59 pm  Vote:    

  Lucas,

  at a time, when most every other broker or realtor in Miami still pretends that the market is moving along just fine, I find your blog to be the only one that really provides interesting and realistic information.

  I watched the German real estate market melt down in 2000 - 2002. After a boom in 1996-1998 with plenty of overbuilding, the market, in a first phase, started to freeze. An alliance of developers, bankers and realtors still pretended everything was working out just fine. After three years and sales having come to a complete halt, the market went down more quickly than anyone would have ever imagined. On average, property that had been built in 1996-1998 lost 70% of its value, some more than 80%.

  Banks went into panic, forclosed and dumped lots and lots of property on the market. At the same time, financing became non-existent. A paradise for cash buyers.

  It will be interesting to see what is going to happen in Miami. I think that at this time we are just at the beginning of a freezing of market activity. The next phases? Look at what happened in Germany.

  Keep your blog open. You are not only an honest realtor but also a very good journalist.

• 50 Ines /Dec 12, 2007 at 9:51 pm  Vote:    

  Lucas - best of luck with you! Going through what you have gone through is not easy and you did it with finesse and made and made the rest of us, “Miami Realtors” proud.

  I’m sure you will do great in whichever office you choose. It’s all about you and which broker can respect that.

• 51 Chris /Dec 13, 2007 at 12:24 am  Vote:    

  “Lucas - what you failed to disclose to all of your loyal fans is that we did not ask you to censor your blog or the comments. It’s a very simple equation that EWM and any other Broker where you hang your license will also wrestle with. How does a Realtor whose opinion is a continued market delcine make a living?”
  ——————————————

  Hey Tom-

  Keith over at HousingPanic answered your question for you, read below:

  ——————————————

  Note to realtors - want to have a shot at making money again? Just tell the damn truth. America hates liars. Trust me, you’ll stand out from your crowd. Here’s a new marketing pitch for ya - give it a shot!

  “Now is a HORRIBLE time to buy a home - it’s called ‘catching a falling knife’. But maybe I can help you find a sick deal out there, one that even has positive cash flow. And if you ‘own’ a home and want to preserve any of the equity you have left, get it on the market NOW, price it TO SELL FAST, and let’s get you out from under that depreciating debt-trap ASAP!! This market is CRASHING, it’s only going to get worse, so the time to move is NOW!”

• 52 Chris /Dec 13, 2007 at 12:26 am  Vote:    

  People like honesty, they hate liars.

  People will trust a Realtor like Lucas who will find them a REAL CASH FLOW POSITIVE INVESTMENT, or a real good deal instead of pretending like every condo for sale is a good buy.

  Also, people need to understand if you want to sell your house, you have to be realistic about the price.

  Lucas is honest, and thats why he stands out from the crowd.

• 53 Lucas Lechuga /Dec 13, 2007 at 12:30 am  Vote:    

  How am I failing to make a living though from the blog? As you know, I have 4 pending transactions: one from my listing at Villa Regina, one at Atlantis on Brickell, one at Ten Museum Park and one at One Bal Harbour. In all cases, those customers came to me as a direct result of my blog. I’d probably be extinct if it were not for this blog. I have another offer that will be submitted at Plaza on Brickell within the next day or two. That guy also came to me as a direct result of the blog.

  The sellers of the unit at Villa Regina contacted me because they needed to sell fast because of a job that was relocating them. They were very realistic about the market. Although I’m primarily a buyer’s agent, those are the types of listings that I want because those are the ones that will sell in this market. This blog is to educate both buyers and sellers. Why should I waste my time and money on a listing if the seller will only agree to list at an unrealistic price?

• 54 Dave /Dec 13, 2007 at 2:10 pm  Vote:    

  Thomas: To reiterate my earlier comment to you, there is nothing patently in conflict for a real estate firm to acknowledge a bad market. Frankly, many will see this as an opportunity to finally buy homes and condos at a level they can afford! A broker that tells me the unvarnished truth in good times and bad is worth his weight in gold, whether I am a seller or buyer. It is most critical if you are a seller in a bad market, because time IS money. If you unrealistically wait to get your price, you may never sell and actually end up getting out at a worse time after losing 6 months to a year hesitating and diluding yourself. If that happens, the seller will most obviously put most of the blame on his broker.

• 55 Alejandro Diaz /Dec 13, 2007 at 5:25 pm  Vote:    

  Good Luck with EWM, the broker wont make much difference anyways you are getting your own leads with this blog, plus its entertaining to all of us

• 56 Mary McKnight /Dec 13, 2007 at 5:40 pm  Vote:    

  Sorry to hear about the censorship but it is nice to see someone who will stand up and make the tough decisions based on principle! Good luck and i am sure another Broker will be happy to have you.

• 57 Kevin /Dec 14, 2007 at 12:49 am  Vote:    

  Just a little comment to “Chris”

  You’re “pessimistic”–some people are optimistic–

  I have the solution= REALISTIC.

  Remember 99% of the time the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

• 58 Lucas Lechuga /Dec 14, 2007 at 12:52 am  Vote:    

  Mary - It’s a great pleasure to have you on my blog! Congratulations on your new baby!

• 59 A proletarian /Dec 15, 2007 at 6:34 pm  Vote:    

  You’ve done a great job!

• 60 MiamiRealEstateKing /Dec 16, 2007 at 2:47 pm  Vote:    

  Lucas, I have learned a lot from you in recent days. After avoiding the buzz, I just couldn’t resist any longer and decided to research this blog thing, and in particular, as it relates to real estate. Yours and Tomlinson’s blogs stand out the most. Although I couldn’t find you listed in the EWM directory (though I did find there your 3-part piece on condo prices on Brickell), I’m sure you’ll soon enough stand out with them.

  As to your old broker (Tom?)-As far as I’m concerned, all Realtors are business men/women and entreprenours. As such, we evaluate and make business decisions based on our own personality, how we see things and make decisions and formulate opinions accordingly. Lucas has an approach that obviously works well and earned him a following and plenty of business to live (and for you as well). Censoring a business partner is the quickest way to loose them. Although you are right, those of us who are not (or choose not te be) brokers do have a certain allegiance to our broker and we therefore must choose one that conforms to our ways, just as much as the broker should realize that they made a business decision to allow us to hang our license with them, because we would also bring something to the table and meet that broker’s (your) corporate culture and vision (assuming that was ever discussed during the hiring process).

  You made several comments that speak of your business vision, including: “The point is only that you are hanging your license with a Broker so that you can earn a living selling real estate. What I have not been able to figure out is whetheryour predictions for futher drastic declines may or may not be true.” Hopefully, this was not the basis for a meeting that resulted in loosing someone who’s putting food in your plate as well. In the end, anyone’s predictions are simply that. Predictions/opinions are like noses…everybody has one.

  CNBC has people who feel bullish and bearish about the market all day long. Every market has that and people buy what others sell all day long around the globe. Neither approach is right or wrong while forward looking since no prediction can be 100% accurate unless it comes to pass. After that, it is 20/20 hindsight and all that matters then, is the analysis to make a better prediction next time.

  However, you must concur that Lucas makes those with a pulse on the market and thorough analysis, much of which is done by few others in this industry (specially when compared to the numbers of Realtors out there). Therefore, these predictions become calculated guesses which is the best anyone can offer.

  You also stated “We only wanted you to see the inherent contradiction with trying to make a living as a Realtor (even a very realistic one) while predicting publicly the continued fall of the market. It may be true. It just does not make sense to try and do both.” Here is when even you contradict yourself. The moment you acknowledge that Lucas may be proposing market ideas that may be “(even a very realistic one)”, you also acknowledge the duality of your own statements.

  As far as I’m concerned, and without knowing you and assuming that Lucas worked well with you until now, it seems that you grew apart and as usual, it is in these times - when the going gets tough - that we know who our real allies are.

  Too bad that you’ll now miss out on Lucas’ closings coming up.

  But it says much more about Lucas’ integrity and moral fortitude and how valuable that is versus flip/floping to meet what we think or feel the market wants to hear. From Lebanon, to Germany, From Canada to Miami, it is quite apparent to me which approach is more respected and preferred by “the market”.

  Best wishes to both of you.

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